Do We Need Religion? (Islam & the Left vs the Judeo/Christian world)

Faithfreedom.org ^ | 4/21/2006 | Wolfgang Bruno

[antiRepublicrat]

Any morality formed without an absolute reference point (God) is "relative" (non-fixed) and will drift from its original purpose and be made to mean anything

But the "absolute reference point" is what one society a long time ago decided was the right thing -- man-made rules. And even then they do change. Few Christians today support all of the rules in the Bible, even if you discount the Old Testament ones so conveniently thrown out.

[WalterSkinner]

Can you have morality without religion? Absolutely yes.

..ah yes, The Enlightenment still lives

Have we learned nothing?

[Blzbba]

"The leadership of the Nazi and communist movements were almost all atheists, or professed to be such. Atheism was and is vigorously promoted at all levels of society under all Marxist regimes"


Yet "mutually assured destruction" worked well with Commies and Nazis didn't use suicide terror tactics.

This "Die for God and be a martyr" crap is exclusive to religious peoples who aren't deterred by the fear of death. Nazis and Commies didn't/don't want to die for their beliefs, whereas religious people have always been anxious to.

[antiRepublicrat]

Enough said.

Slippery slope.

[Steve_Seattle]

Japan

My impression is that, despite secularism, there is still a pervasive Buddhist (mostly Zen) and Shinto component to the Japanese mindset. Zen, in particular, is a very "secular" form of religion, and it can be "hidden in plain view." It involves cultivation of an inner poise and equanimity, and a somewhat nebulous sense of a divine presence permeating all of reality. It encourages a simplicity of form in aesthetics, architecture, gardening, etc., and is I think a still active presence in Japanese culture. And in Shintoism there is also reinforced a respect for one's ancestors and one's culture. So these things tend to give the culture a kind of conservatism that puts the brakes on some of the cruder expressions of individualism we see in the West.

[redgolum]

Have we learned nothing?

We haven't learned much since the apple in Eden. Men still want to make themselves god. The Enlightenment wasn't really new.

[jec41]

placemarker

[antiRepublicrat]

And now there is a kind of creeping, worldwide socialism which has a prettier face than communism but which ultimately might be just as dictatorial.

We definitely agree there. Any powerful tool can be used to enforce a dictatorship.

[FormerLib]

Yet you find yourself drawn to thread about religion. Curious, isn't it?

It's just as Pascal said, there is a God-shaped hole in each of us and we choose what will fill it.

Whatever it is you've chosen, you are probably coming to these threads because the hold remains.

[Blzbba]

"Ever hear of the anarchists movement? They were quit found of blowing people up."


Kinda like the KKK and IRA, both religious groups.

Anarchists are fools, btw. If they ever achieved their goals, they'd be the first to die in an anarchic world. They've no real idea of what life would be like in anarchy.

[Dark Skies]

Ever hear of the anarchists movement? They were quit found of blowing people up...

Bloody archivists...nothing but trouble!

[Borges]

There are a lot of crackpots who call themselves religious and regard theological beliefs as a distraction. Religion simply means beliefs taken on faith.

[FormerLib]

...many tyrants have used chains forged from religion.

In terms of Christian history, you'll find such chains can only be forged from a perversion of the Christian religion, which is why Henry spoke of the essential fundamentals, chief among which is that faith must remain a personal choice. A state-enforced faith can be many things but ultimately it cannot be Christian.

[MadeInAmerica]

Also, being Christian is no guarantee of sanity either, as the IRA, KKK, and other lunatic-fringe groups have shown.
___________________________________________________________

A man breaks into another mans home and steals a pair of pants, shirt and shoes then goes to rob a bank. The bank teller gives the description and the police come to your home and arrest you.

It wasn't me, you say.

But it looked like you, your shirt, pants, shoes. The police say. Yup, it was you.

It may have looked like me, but is WAS NOT ME.

In short, the KKK was not a true follower of Christ. Many groups that attempt to wear the "clothes" are not.

[Ulysse]

Western world could not have a such historical evolution without judeo-christianism and without the raise of reason in Greece.It means,i think,that judeo-christianism allowed and favoured this evolution toward freedom and reason despite failures and crimes.
This means that judeo-christianism certainly contains some essential truths and goodness.
Any way never mind if you believe in Christ or not but it's only impossible to save our essential values if you want to cancel,like France,our christian roots.

In addition ,as said a philosopher,i believe there is no ethic without metaphisic

[redgolum]

The Anarchists of the early 20th century have much in common with the libertarians. They were very violent, and very anti religion. One famous quote is "We will only have peace when the last king is suffocated with the guts of the last priest".

I agree that they were fools. But they were very dangerous ones. Teddy R. kicked them out of the country after the hay market riots.

[FormerLib]

There are a lot of crackpots who call themselves religious...

"Words mean what I want them to mean, nothing less and nothing more."

Forget about the concept of a theology-based enforcement, the Left would be sorely damaged if we ever instituted laws to enforce a common dictionary.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Kinda like the KKK and IRA, both religious groups."

I don't think it's accurate to characterize the IRA as a "religious group." It is basically a national independence movement.

[antiRepublicrat]

In the last 90 years, atheists (Nazis/communists) have far outstripped Muslims in their brutality, mass murder, and denial of civil rights.

1) Modern-day = far more people to kill and enslave

2) Modern-day = better technology with which to kill and enslave those people more efficiently

3) The Nazis were organized and efficient in practically everything they did, far more so than any religious organization I've seen

If the Muslims had had 20th Century technology and population prior to the 15th Century, you can bet the casualties would have been extremely high.

[Borges]

Can't really blame it all on the atheists...

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."-

-Thomas Jefferson