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To: antceecee
First, this post was about attendance at weekly services. The leap to political view points and birthrates is completely unsubstantiated by this person's offhand comments. But, the contempt for Reform Judaism is unmistakable. Millions of people with good minds are praying for something like Reform Islam to show up and save the world.

The same contemptible statements could be made about white people as a whole. Such statements are being tossed around by several groups. But, prosperity is the more common cause of lowering birth rates as well as nearly 100 years of developing programs that focus on reducing the need to have many children as a "retirement plan." This trend, social security, the disintegration of the nuclear family, birth control, no fault divorce, two income families are all sources of reduced birth rates for all but the most established (2nd Generation + ) demographic groups in the US. The pews in Catholic churches are not filled with white families with 12 and 13 kids like they were even 20 years ago. So don't lay this at the foot of one congregation of Judaism and make all sorts of generalizations which have nothing to do with anything.

Its not about race, its not about religion as such, its about demographics and US values and politics.

Reform Judaism today is decidedly liberal, but you can find many congregations of all faiths lost in the woes of 20th Century moral relativism. Each person in the US has seen the failure of so many "experiments" of the 2nd half of the 20th Century.

But, even these failures have brought new truth and enduring successes. Its just that now is a time to do this learning.. to separate the discovery of the dignity and contribution of women in a modern society which is enriching and life affirming from the evil of death by "choice" and the denigration of the dignity of men and the denial of the great wonders of the institutions known as motherhood and fatherhood.

The "Great Society" turned out not to help the poor as much as it was the engine of the destruction of the dignity and the community of all who were sucked in by it.

And the rise of Secularism as an Ideal and its placement as the official "religion" of the US by courts attempting to extract a separation between Church and State have also been exposed as a great and enduring mistake.

But, now we know why. Admittedly the price was high. But, moving forward, each Religious community needs to reflect and learn. So don't look down your nose at Reform Jews. Try looking in your own mirror. They will wonder more in the desert, or perhaps they will find their way. This is all in God's hands.

32 posted on 04/21/2006 5:53:44 AM PDT by dalight
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To: dalight

>> But, the contempt for Reform Judaism is unmistakable. Millions of people with good minds are praying for something like Reform Islam to show up and save the world. <<

Well, that's because unreformed Islam is pure evil. As a Catholic in a very religiously mixed state university, I noticed, the more religious a Jewish person was, or even a Hindu, the more likely I was to get along with them. The LESS religious a Muslim was, the more tolerable they were.


37 posted on 04/21/2006 6:25:01 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dalight

Again, in re-reading the post and also my post to you in 21 I don't see why you have your hackles up. I don't see any contempt.
No one is looking down their nose at Reform Jews, their low birthrate mirrors that of many liberal (and conservative) Christians, agnostics and atheists.
What grabbed my interest personally in reading the article was Rabbi Wolpe's comment about attendance in Los Angeles; as most of my Jewish friends and business associates live in West LA and they are quite liberal and many even pretty much agnostic when it comes to religion. Being Jewish is more of a special club to them... someone here said it's more of an ethnicity than a religion to some.
Your statement to me is quite well written and I can agree with most all of your post, but I don't understand why you are upset. The article was highlighting Jewish attendance at services so naturally the discussion is centered on Jews. The same discussion can be turned toward liberal Christians and Catholics. As a Catholic I would not find it offensive. or contemptible. Liberal Catholics and white Catholics in general do not have children in requisite numbers to reproduce themselves, Catholics from Phillipines, Asia and Latin American countries, however do fill the pews at my church with 5 to 6 kids on Sunday.
Personally I like to factor in the fact we live with today, in that it takes both parents working to support a household, at least here in So Calif. I think that has severely limited the birthrate, as it is harder to raise 5 or more kids when both parents have to work. I don't know how the immigrant families do it, but I noticed that many live together with several generations in one house. Perhaps the fact they have Grandma and Grandpa under the same roof to help with the kids gives them the ability to sustain a larger family.
So you see, we are all reflecting on the issues brought up in this article. No one is looking down at anyone.


45 posted on 04/21/2006 9:22:42 AM PDT by antceecee (Hey AG Gonzales! ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS NOW!!!)
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