Terrorists Recruiting 'White Muslims'

1. At the very beginning of the conflict, yes, as compared to the JNA, the Muslims were virtually unarmed. That quickly changed when Iran started supplying them. In the beginning the JNA could have steamrolled Bosnia in a heartbeat if they chose to, but instead, Milosevic decided to play politics and recognize the Bosnian borders.

"Foolish and naive" doesn't begin to explain Izetbegovic --did you even read his resume on Wikipedia? He was a fascist in his youth, a Muslim activist in his middle age and a butcher of his own people in his old age for the "good of Islam".

What are you talking about re "the JNA would come to Bosnia's aid"? That makes no sense. Why would the Yugoslav Army come to the aid of the Bosnian Muslims? Nonsense.

2. Waive swastikas in the face of Jews and see what happens, then kill and expel them when according to you "they behave badly". Right.

3.You are right, the Serbs had no sense of PR. But, what happened to the "60,000 Bosnian Muslim women being held in rape camps"? A total fabrication. As was who was responsible for the "Markale Market Murders" and the "Breadline Massacre". The Muslims were killing their own people for the camera, for God's sake! If that doesn't equal "radical Muslim", I don't know what does! Did you even read Lewis MacKenzie, the first UN General in Bosnia? He was there when all of this happened and is in closer agreement with what I am saying than what you are saying.

4. Yes, about 2 1/2 million between, refugees from Croatia, Bosnia, and the 200, 000 from Kosovo. And when Serbia was under sanctions, they couldn't even get medicine for their wounds. I know. I helped bring over a six year old girl to the US for medical treatment. She's been run over by a jeep. And they were going to make her wait out a complete INS "background check" taking months because she was "a Serb" (they flat-out told me that if she were Muslim there would be no problem getting her an emergency medical visa within 24 hours). It was only because I had a couple of powerful Greek Democrats as friend that I got her and another 15 year old Serb girl who had her jaw blown out by a grenade lobbed into her school by the Muslims, over here for medical treatment, and I am proud to say that the American doctors donated their treatment. Thnak God for the American Greeks who helped us when ever they could! You explain to me what those children did to anyone to deserve what they got -- oh yeah, the Muslims were just reacting to "the big bad Serbs" will be your answer.

5. My cousin was an active Croat nationalist here in the US, close to the top of the food chain. He believed in Croat independence for economic reasons, not because he was an anti-Serb bigot. He flat out told me before the war began what was going to happen and that Germany had been backing the Croats and all the Slovene, Bosnian and Kosovo Albanian independece moves from day one. There was no way for the Serbs to win, period. This was in 1990. Not a single shot had been fired, not a single political move had been made. It was scripted before it happened, as much as I didn't want to believe it, it all came true. I almost barfed when the US Holocaust Museum opened and there was no Simon Weisenthal (he had defended the Serbs in Croatia), but instead there was Franjo Tudjman, Alija Izetbegovic and Ellie Weisel! Two WWII Fascists and a Jewish shill to replace Weisenthal. I could not beleve my eyes!

6. Once again, that's crap. Remember Kim Philby, Guy Burgess? The guy who recruited these Soviet spies at Cambridge was named Klugman, and he was in charge of British intelligence coming from Yugoslavia. That is where those allegations came from -- a Soviet spy in British Intelligence who wanted a "communist Yugoslavia". (Read Michael Lees, "The Rape of Serbia", he was there during the war, or David Martin "The Web of Disinformation") Even Milovan Djilas admitted that it was Tito who was in bed with Nazi Germany, not Mihailovic. And Milhailovic rescued 500 American flyers who had been shot down behind enemy lines, sacrificing an entire Serbian village (who the Germans burned alive) because he refused to hand the Americans over to the Germans. The US had to pull off the rescue directly, and not through British intelligence, because they knew that they were not to be trusted in Yugoslavia. (Those rescued flyers fought until the day they died- of old age --to have their story told) As a result, Harry Truman awarded the Legion of Merit Award posthumously to Mihailovic, but the State department kept it secret until the 1960's. Bush finally had it given to Mihailovic's granddaughter a couple of years ago. There is a Draza Mihailovic American Legion Post in Los Angeles -- the only one in teh US named after a foreign national. So quit spouting that fabrication to one who knows better.

7. Yeah, right. Our troops are always "perfect gentlemen" in war. If you believe that, then you have never seen a war firsthand. It may not be policy, but it happens.

I didn't debate the issue of tactics with you because I said from the beginning that I was attempting to discuss political strategy with you, not tactics. However, you didn't seem to be able to make a point without resting it on what you believe were "Serb tactics" -- as though the Serbs were alone in the use of vicious tactics. You've already "justified" Muslim use of those same tactics as only "reactive" not "offensive".

This was a civil war, and civil wars are notoriously bloody and in it, innocent civilians die (hence the use of the word "civil" in civil war). It was also an ethnic civil war, which traditionally are even bloodier. The only way to avert the horrific atrocities that you see on all sides of a war like this is to prevent the war from happening. We had a chance to do that and instead, at every clip and turn, we politcally exacerbated the situation. And we didn't just screw the Serbs, ultimately we screwed ourselves.

http://new-millennium.netfirms.com/Demons.html

"I notice it repeated allegations made in Living Marxism magazine about the detention camp at Trnopolje - claims the editor and author later disowned (namely that the camp in question was not a detention camp where people were beaten and killed and that folks could leave at any time. There were armed guards, as the editor later admited)."

Did you see the actual running tape of how that photo that shook the world was made? I did. The TV crew deliberately posed shirtless Muslim men (including one with TB) in front of an internal barbed wire-fence to a storage area to simulate the photos of Auschwitz -- a photo that has forever symbolized the Western view of Bosnia and the Serbs. The photo lied, in that it looked as though the the men were beeing starved and readied for "the gas chamber". When one posed photo like that one can establish the entire political view of a war, is it any wonder that journalists are getting killed at a much higher rate today than ever before? If that is what is acceptable practice to them, they do not have my sympathies.

"The Bosnian government tried to dislodge them."

Were you there? That's right, you weren't. When you cannot trust those doing the reporting, neither of us will ever know what really happened in any given area which is why I would not argue this with you battle by battle.
There is, however, enough inconsistency in what has been reported and what we have been told, to say that something is very wrong with the picture that has been painted for us.

"Again, I'm supposed to believe that every shell that killed 20+ people was the Muslims shooting themselves, while Serb shells crashed down for years on end killing thousands."

The Serbs may have indeed killed thousands, it was a war. But, "when you remove the impossible, whatever remains no matter how improbable, is the truth". When Serb guns were not in range and the medical records say that the wounds are not consistent with those of a shell being fired from above but are consistent with planted explosives detonating from below; and when the streets are cleared beforehand as they were during the "Breadline Massacre" and the camera crews are invited to set up in precisely that spot to wait for "an event" when no other event is planned; then you have a very good idea that something is being staged for our viewing.

Think that I am off the wall, enter Markale Marketplace or Breadline Massacre into any search engine today, and the vast majoritiy of the sites you will find finally agree with me, and not with you. That was not the case ten years, when it really could have made a difference.

There is much that has been written about the Bosnian war by one "Stephen Schwartz". With a name like that it would appear that Schwartz has no affiliations or loyalties to any side -- and then you find this:
http://www.naqshbandi.org/events/articles/conversion_schwartz.htm

Likewise, with author Michael Sells , until you find this:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/sells.htm

I had mixed feelings about the civil war in Yugoslavia because of what had happened during WWII. Maybe it is all karma come back. the Croats were terrible scum. The Eustache were Nazi scum who murdered Jews and Serbs. Some Serbs helped the Jews after Germany invaded.

Are you Muslim, Tommy? Or married to one? Because you seems so bent on distinguishing "radical Islam" from "peaceful Islam"? And on defending the Bosnian version of it. Or is this just a political dogma that drives you?

I have an English friend in Italy, who seems to simply write off Al Qaeda as "a few crazy Muslims" -- and he is a highly educated intelligent man, but dumb as a rock when it comes to Islam. He has never traveled ouside of the EU.

I have spent time in Egypt twice and have traveled through parts of the ME over the course of the last twenty years. I have friends who lived in Libya pre-Khadaffi & in Saudi Arabia and their son-in-law is Lebanese (born in Lebanon). We all agree that most of the West is almost completely ignorant to the power of Islam as a political and religious philososphy -- and completely blind to the idea that Islam weighs its worth in "conversions" and "acquired geographical territory"

Stephen Schwartz wrote "The Two Faces of Islam" before he personally converted to Islam, which should tell you that even someone who knew exactly what he was getting into was not immune.

I can tell you this -- I don't care how "benevolent" any form if Islam might be, I would never chose to live under it. And if tomorrow an Islamic government attempted to replace my own government and take over my home, my land, my life, then I would without a second thought take up the battle cry of my ancestors -- "Bolja Hristianski Grob nego Muslimanski Rob" ("Better to be a Christian Grave than a Muslim Slave") and fight them to the death. Would I commit atrocities to achieve my freedom? I don't know. I will tell you that once I saw ME Muslim armies beheading my family and friends, all bets would be off, all inhibitions I had preventing it, would be unloosed. I could easily believe that I might turn into an animal fighting to the death for its own survival.

Thank God, I have never personally been "at war", but my husband is a Vietnam vet so I have a pretty good idea that war isn't the intellectual exercize you and I are engaging in. So, if I use the same standard to apply to the Serbs in Bosnia as I would apply to myself, then I cannot judge them as harshly as you do.

I also know what you do not -- this isn't over in Bosnia. You may have a lull for some years -- as you did between WWII and the 1990's -- but no outsider can settle this in the longterm for them. They must settle it themselves. And until then, the Balkans will always be a flashpoint for wars between the great powers of politics and religion, because it is the crossroads between East and West. It is where religion and politics all come together -- or come apart as they did so tragically in the 1990's.

Yes, the Jews and Serbs were traditionally friends.

Major Richard Felman once pointed out to me that, unlike most countries in Europe in earlier centuries, Jews in Serbia had always had full rights of citizenship and legal protections from hate crimes. Much of the slivovtiz that comes from Serbia still has Hebrew on the label. Felman, himself, was an American Jew with a very interesting experience in Yugoslavia during WWII. His bio is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_L._Felman and the tribute that Sandy Marquette wrote to him (a link is on the bottom of the Wikipedia article) is fitting. He will always be very dear to us, and never forgotten.

Nice that you have a choice of who to sell out in order to appease what you believe is "peaceful Islam". You don't live there. So you and Churchill seem to be on the same page when it comes to the Balkans.

No one said that all Moslems were the same, Tommy. Humans are all unique. I simply said that if someone took over my government and told me that I had to live under Islam ("peaceful" or not), I would fight -- and I don't know what I'd do in that fight. But if you live in the US, you may have a lot more time to make up your mind about that than you probbably would have had in GB. Nice to have that luxury, don't you think?