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To: Eaglewatcher

I just posted this in another fair tax thread, but it bears repeating.

23% is way, way too high. Add that to the 8%+ that some states steal in sales tax plus the state level income taxes, property taxes and other nonsense fees and you'll pull the typical American into a 35% overall tax bracket.

If the 23% were it then I'd be okay, but it's just the Federal portion!

15% tops to start and then lower it as government gets cut up and parted out.

Then you can count me as a supporter.


3 posted on 04/18/2006 10:33:16 AM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: Filo

EXACTLY!! I have been saying this for awhile!

It sounds great until you stop to think that its not the "only" tax we will be paying!

When you also consider that the state and federal government can raise these percentages at any time to whatever they want I think that we are in great danger.

For instance, After reading the fair tax book I came away believing that there was alot to it that would work but I kept thinking..."why would anyone buy something new when you could buy used and not pay sales tax?"
A new car would have this huge sales tax attached to it but a used one none. Same with everything! Even with more in my paycheck i'm still going to be budgeting because all in all its not a decrease, they are just shifting the burden. Therefore I will most likely never get to have nice new things because i won't be able to afford the taxes and settle for someones hand me downs.


4 posted on 04/18/2006 10:40:52 AM PDT by annelizly
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To: Filo
23% is way, way too high.

They actually add 30% sales tax. 23% is what they call an 'inclusive tax rate'. On a $100 item, they add $30 of tax. They come up with 23% by dividing the $30 tax by final cost $130. It's FairTax Deception 101.

5 posted on 04/18/2006 10:41:24 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Filo
As spelled out in the bill, the rate is 29.87%.

So a item priced at $100.00 would cost you $129.87 plus applicable state and local sales taxes.

And that tax applies to items that weren't previously taxed, like food, prescription medicine, and rent.

What are you going to do when your rent goes up 30% on day one of the Federal FraudTax?

6 posted on 04/18/2006 10:41:57 AM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: Filo

23% is way, way too high...



Ummmmm .... you are paying that now ... because the prices of the goods you buy include the impact of the income taxes, FICA taxes, and Medicare taxes.

The Fairtax just makes it visible.

If you want to reduce it ... support the Fairtax to make it visible, and then you might be able to convince people to "... lower it as the government gets cut up and parted out".


7 posted on 04/18/2006 10:42:36 AM PDT by Mack the knife
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To: Filo
... and you'll pull the typical American into a 35% overall tax bracket.

Do you spend every penny of your income on goods? Since I spend much less than 10% of my income on goods, then that 23% would be equivalent to less than a 2.3% income tax, not 23%. That means instead of the > 50% total tax burden I shoulder now, it would be about 35% (or less if state income taxes go away) which would be a lot better!! Think about it...

8 posted on 04/18/2006 10:43:40 AM PDT by LambSlave (The truth will set you free)
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To: Filo

I agree - 23% is too high.

The reason that the FairTax is set up that way is to make it "revenue neutral." I don't want "revenue neutral" I want less government spending and lower taxes.

I support the FairTax in principle but would not want to see it go into effect until the income tax amendment is eliminated first, spending is cut and the tax rate is reduced.


13 posted on 04/18/2006 10:50:18 AM PDT by ejroth
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To: Filo
23% is way, way too high

I pay WAY, WAY, WAY, more than that RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

29 posted on 04/18/2006 11:13:39 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The old/liberal/socialist media is the most ruthless and destructive enemy of this country.)
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To: Filo

In fact, Filo, if the FairTax were passed today, the revenue neutral rate sould be something like 19% due to the Bush tax cuts that are in effect.

As for state sales taxes, the most likely thing there is for most states to choose to conform to the FairTax which would lower the state sales tax rate to about 1/3 the rate presently in most states. There's a good discussion of this on the FairTax website. For example if your state had a 6.5% typical sales tax now and chose to conform to the FairTax, the tax base would be broader and the rate drop to perhaps 2 or 2.5 percent.

As the FairTax progreses from year to year, the rate would probably drop as the rate is very visible which allows political pressure o be brought to bear and with the improving ecomony from the FairTax effects the rate could be lower for a given amount of tax revenue.


44 posted on 04/18/2006 12:00:45 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Filo

Unless you don't have much an income, you're already paying this - its just being extracted by income tax withholding. The tax is supposed to be revenue neutral.


58 posted on 04/18/2006 1:14:45 PM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Filo

You're already paying 23%. The Fairtax just collects it all out in the open instead fo through withholding and hidden costs of the goods you buy.

These mechanisms are the novicaine that keeps you from being outraged about your 23% rate. Precisely why the Fairtax is good for forcing spending cuts on the politicians.


68 posted on 04/18/2006 1:34:25 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (Join the FR folding team!! http://vspx27.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=36120)
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To: Filo
Perhaps 23% is too high, but when you consider that hidden taxes will also disappear, then compared to what you're paying for Fed, State, local & hidden taxes now, it might end up being less. In any event as Alexander Hamilton pointed out, such taxes, like water will find their own level.

Anything is better than the system we have now and I think this plan is better than most other proposed alternatives.

70 posted on 04/18/2006 1:36:05 PM PDT by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: Filo
23% is way, way too high. Add that to the 8%+ that some states steal in sales tax plus the state level income taxes, property taxes and other nonsense fees and you'll pull the typical American into a 35% overall tax bracket.

The 23% is instead of Federal income and SS taxes. You still would have to pay all other local taxes.

I have been FOR the Fair Tax since I first read about it here on FR.

81 posted on 04/18/2006 1:57:02 PM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: Filo

What is your tax bracket now? Don't forget to count all of the taxes being repealed. Those include all federal income taxes, all federal payroll taxes and all federal estate and gift taxes. Those will be replaced by the Fair Tax at 23%.

And you may wish to consider what is good for others as well as yourself. Say your children and grandchildren, who will be active workers at a time when their payroll taxes will be exorbitant and yet they will get no social security benefits from the taxes paid. The Fair Tax would solve those problems, plus give them stronger economic growth to raise standards of living.


97 posted on 04/18/2006 2:42:03 PM PDT by n-tres-ted (Remember November!)
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