More Signs of a Future Hollow Force? The Air Force Cuts a Corner

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HomelandDefense/wm1039.cfm ^ | April 18, 2006 | James Jay Carafano

[SJSAMPLE]

IIRC, the alternate engine for the JSF/F-35 was a Rolls-Royce engine. The announcement of the engine's termination came shortly after Britain began threatening to pull out of the JSF project because technical data (specifically, software code) would not be released to them as a "project partner".

It's my understanding that the RR engine program will be re-instated if Britain withdraws its complaints.

[rhombus]

Inrtelligence, Sureveillance and Reconnaisance work on the other hand did very, very well in the QDR budget. This includes things like UAVs as well as manned ISR aircraft.

[rhombus]

http://www.c4isrjournal.com/story.php?F=1552131

[Blogger]

Actually, GB made its threat slightly after the Pentagon decision. Currently the LM/Pratt team is way over budget. They are hoping to offset the budget by having this tiny slice of the pie thrown out. In other words, we're overspending so lets penalize the guys who are on schedule and on cost. Makes sense. Not.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

I have worked in procurement for 25 years. The decision to terminate the second engine source for the JSF does not necessarily mean that acquisition costs for the engines will be higher. The Navy had a similar problem with sub building, and it originally envisioned two sources for its subs. Ultimately it had to drop the second source due to the end of the Cold War and the need for subs declined so that sub production would not support two sources. Not sure how this will play out in the long run, but it is important to remember that the original JSF contract was competitive, the R&D phase is based on cost reimbursement, leading to fixed prices for production.
Eliminating the second source does reduce flexibility. Cost is more complicated to determine at this time. It may depend on how many JSFs are purchased.

[linear]

I believe it is fairly rare to have more than one engine for any given airframe - never heard of a fighter having multiple engine types, unless it was part of a modernization plan (ie the KC-135 R model - I realize that isn't a fighter aircraft, lol).

[Blogger]

It doesn't necessarily mean that it won't drive up costs either. The Lockheed Martin and Pratt efforts are already overspent. The costs are expected to go up right now by 19 billion dollars. NONE of this is driven by the alternate engine team. With the alternate engine gone, what incentive is there for anyone to stay on cost? There is no longer anybody waiting in the wings to take over or provide competition for any future engines.

[Blogger]

The JSF is a unique animal. It will have 3 variants. Also, there was a "great engine war" in past decades where based upon poor performance of one particular source's engine the government decided to have an alternative. The scenario is, this fighter will be THE fighter for all three branches of our military. If there is an engine design flaw that shows up with no alternative engine to fill in the gap- our entire fleet could be grounded. Not good.

[Blogger]

Correction: I know there are more than three branches. But this is going to be THE fighter for 3 of them. It is a big deal.

[bill1952]

Bingo.

After all of the other posts re JSF and us handing over tech to England, I still don't see that event happening, and I'm still skeptical about JSF even going mainstream at all.

The ball is in England's court, and we shall see how she goes.

[tigtog]

I don't agree that not having a second source for engines on the JSF represents a "hollow force." Shoosh, look who is doing the real fighting, Marines and Army. The Air Force long ago decided it was strategic rather than tactical and put its money there. As a result both the Marines and Army developed their own tactical air force. A little history, the only reason we did not invade Cuba in 1963 was the Air Force said it could not provide 24 hour air cover for the Army. Too many Strat Bombers and not enough tactical aircraft. The Army got the message and developed their helicopter forces accordingly.

[Blogger]

The Marines are a part of this deal.

[bill1952]

Oh, I agree with you entirely.
I didn't mean to to propose that I agreed with any 'Hollow' force theory

[Blogger]

From the JSF Website: The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is the Department of Defense's focal point for defining affordable next generation strike aircraft weapon systems for the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and our allies. The F-35 is the next generation strike fighter bringing cutting-edge technologies to the battlespace of the future. The JSFs advanced airframe, autonomic logistics, avionics, propulsion systems, stealth, and firepower will ensure that the F-35 is the most affordable, lethal, supportable and survivable aircraft ever to be used by so many warfighters across the globe.

[Fury]

Ping for later read...

[Wisconsin]

So, given some staff sergeant in say Dayton Ohio sitting in an airconditioned room flying a drone in Southwest Asia on a ground support mission, exactly how important is the second engine program?

[doc30]

“Hollow force” describes what happens when military readiness declines because of a lack of adequate funding. A hollow force lacks the resources (1) to provide trained and ready forces, (2) to support ongoing operations, and (3) to modernize. Today’s military is not hollow, but it could become so in a decade or less if funding for the military isn’t adequate.

Sounds like the first steps down the path that Canada's military took decades ago.

[A Balrog of Morgoth]

I think somebody up at Heritage needs to unbunch their panties.

I don't know enough to intelligently debate the relative merits of each different engine, or whether there should be one or two types of engines or any of that.

I think I can safely say it's a bit early, given everything else we know about military funding, manning, and acquisitions here in the year 2006 to be toting out the old "hollow force" bugaboo.

[isom35]

a "hollow forse" needs a "hollow pilot" and I have just the man:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164052/