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To: Polybius
The difference between credit and debit cards and national ID cards is that rejection of the former is based on three events: theft, expiration, or insufficient funds or credit. Anyone who has lost his credit or debit cards through theft, misplacement, or destruction has strong motivation to report the loss to the issuing bank. OTOH, there are 298 million Americans, an enormous data base from which forgery could be accomplished. If an individual went to establish a bank account or seek employment in Southern California and said his name was Juan Ortiz, born in 1977 in Long Beach, California, social security number 123-45-6789, when he was actually Diego Lopez, born in 1978 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico, how would a government data bank recognize he was not Juan Ortiz? Let's say the actual Juan Ortiz manages a grocery store and has a bank account. It is not illegal for him to take a second job or have a second bank account. Thus how will you distinguish the real Juan Ortiz from the other man?

A magnetic strip, a proven technology in the credit card industry, will not work. Perhaps biometric technology would be a more effective way to identify, but implementation of such a system would be expensive for both government and business. In addition, if history proves anything, it is that the private sector, including the black market, is effective in circumventing government issue technology.

In summary, I do not believe the national ID card will be an effective means of weeding out illegals even if we had an Administration willing to enforce laws established to prevent their entry into the U.S. or their seeking employment or social services.

89 posted on 04/19/2006 9:58:06 PM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
The difference between credit and debit cards and national ID cards is that rejection of the former is based on three events: theft, expiration, or insufficient funds or credit. Anyone who has lost his credit or debit cards through theft, misplacement, or destruction has strong motivation to report the loss to the issuing bank. OTOH, there are 298 million Americans, an enormous data base from which forgery could be accomplished. If an individual went to establish a bank account or seek employment in Southern California and said his name was Juan Ortiz, born in 1977 in Long Beach, California, social security number 123-45-6789, when he was actually Diego Lopez, born in 1978 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico, how would a government data bank recognize he was not Juan Ortiz? Let's say the actual Juan Ortiz manages a grocery store and has a bank account. It is not illegal for him to take a second job or have a second bank account. Thus how will you distinguish the real Juan Ortiz from the other man? A magnetic strip, a proven technology in the credit card industry, will not work. Perhaps biometric technology would be a more effective way to identify, but implementation of such a system would be expensive for both government and business. In addition, if history proves anything, it is that the private sector, including the black market, is effective in circumventing government issue technology. In summary, I do not believe the national ID card will be an effective means of weeding out illegals even if we had an Administration willing to enforce laws established to prevent their entry into the U.S. or their seeking employment or social services.

You are again arguing that technology now routinely used every day by 21st Century businesses and the U.S. Government can't possibly work.

How did we (and this is a true and actual example from my radiology department) know which patient needed the ultrasound and which patient needed the barium enema when those two patients in their 70's who just happened to have the same name right down to their middle initials and had the same doctor's office and showed up in our department within the same half hour?

We first were flagged to be extra careful when their patient files said: WARNING: DUPLICATE NAME....ANOTHER MARY S. DOE IS ALSO IN OUR FILES.

Even without that warning, our staff would still have asked each patient, "Are you Mary S. Doe?"......"What is your date of birth?"......."Look over this sheet of demographic information. Is all that information including address and phone number correct?"

After all that, we still phoned their doctor's office to confirm that THEY had not gotten the two Mary S. Doe's mixed up when the orders were written and the individual entries in each medical chart was consulted and the information then double-checked by asking the patient why they had visited their doctor.

After we were convinced that we knew exactly who each patient was, we proceeded with the exams.

When it matters, you do not simply match three variables such as first and last names and middle initial. You check as many variables as it takes to get the job done.

We did all that checking with flesh and blood department staff and it took a while to do.

Computers, however, can double-check thousands of variables and, in a microsecond, identify data that raises suspicion.

Bar-coded National ID Cards, just as is the case with the now required bar-coded U.S. Passports, would be issued by the U.S. Government after verification that Wallace T. who was born on this date, in that city in that State and who has SSN 987-65-4321, and whose mother's maiden name was Sally Morgan, and who......etc., etc., etc., ....... is actually a U.S. citizen.

As your information database builds up over the years, the computers that know where to send your IRS forms, your place of employment, you drivers license numbers, your phone numbers, etc., etc., etc. would have be sharing that information with the National ID Card computer which can, in a microsecond, realize that some alleged "Wallace T." in San Diego is trying to steal your identity with a new bank account by claiming your name and SSN but claiming a different address and phone number and a different mother's maiden name on the information sheet the bank just sent electronically to the National ID Card computer.

The same National Id Card computer can realize that some other alleged "Wallace T." is trying to steal your identity when he is applying for a part-time job in San Diego but has no clue where you work now, where you worked before and what your mother's maiden name was.

Forging a National ID Card is child's play.

Getting the forged ID Card and the information an identity thief provides to the bank and employer to send electronically to the National ID Card computer to match that information with your database in the National ID Card computer is almost impossible unless that identity thief takes you down to the bank with a gun to your head so that YOU can fill in all the required application information for the fake bank account he wants.

90 posted on 04/20/2006 7:58:22 AM PDT by Polybius
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