Posted on 04/17/2006 8:50:15 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
In 1775, New Hampshire was the first colony to declare its independence from oppressive laws and taxes levied by the British crown.
Now it may become the first state to declare its independence from an oppressive digital ID law concocted in Washington, D.C.
New Hampshire's House of Representatives has overwhelmingly approved a remarkable bill, HB 1582, that would prohibit the state from participating in the national ID card system that will be created in 2008. A state Senate vote is expected as early as next week.
The federal law in question is the Real ID Act (here's our FAQ on the topic) that was glued on to a military spending and tsunami relief bill last year. Because few politicians are courageous enough to be seen as opposing tsunami aid, the measure sailed through the U.S. Senate by a 100-0 vote and navigated its way through the House 368 votes to 58.
Unless states issue new, electronically readable ID cards that adhere to federal standards, the law says, Americans will need a passport to do everyday things like travel on an airplane, open a bank account, sign up for Social Security or enter a federal building.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.com ...
Scary true. Bump...
Hehehehehe... Yep.
Or what if New York decides to go along with the Real ID Act National ID card thing. Just picture this : You're from New Hampshire, you have a non-Real ID Act-complying New Hampshire driver's license, and you get pulled over in New York City. The cop asks for your license and registration. The cop notices that you have a NH license. He says, "I'm sorry, but this is an invalid driver's license." You say "How come?" The cop replies "We only recognize driver's licenses from Real ID Act-complying states as valid driver's licenses." Then all of a sudden the cops draws his pistol and points it at you, saying "You are under arrest for operating a motor vehicle in the State of New York without a valid operator's license." Then you're hauled to jail and your car is impounded.
The New America : If you support freedom and the Constitution, you're a terrorist, but if you support tyranny and reject the Constitution, then you're "a good little slave". In totalitarian regimes, there are no citizens...there are only slaves.
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
Documents can and will be forged. If such a universal document were to exist, you can bet a large underground industry will develop to forge them. The industry already exists to forge drivers' licenses and state ID cards, but it is somewhat "mom and pop" in character. If a technologically advanced card is developed, organized crime will become involved, as the stakes (employment, social services, etc.) will become higher. Decades of nationwide narcotics prohibition have not prevented the widespread distribution of illegal drugs. Gun control has been ineffective in keeping firearms from criminals in places like Washington, New York, and Chicago.
The power of government has its limits. National ID cards will prove yet another failure.
Not gonna happen. Almost all states have a "reciprocal recognition" law. That is to say that if the driver's license of New Hampshire is not recognised in New York State, THEN the driver's license of New York is NOT recognised in New Hampshire.
This may possibly be a violation of the Interstate Commerce clause of the US Constitution, as well as the Lemuel Penn Ruling.
Either way, New York State looses that fight big time.
Aren't there states which refuse to accept out-of-state IDs/licenses as valid ID when it comes to purchasing alcohol and/or tobacco? If so, would they be in violation of the Interstate Commerce clause and the Lemuel Penn ruling?
"These days and times make it unfortunately necessary for one to be able to identify one's self via an untamperable bio-metricmethod."
The three reasons you give for that, ID theft, terrorism, and illegal use of fake ids, are all relatively rare, notwithstanding the constant blare of them on FR and in the MSM. Any prevention of those things by Real ID would be far outweighed by the daily inconvenience we will all be subjected to by arrogant clerks who cannot get our retina scans or fingerprints to line up and refuse us access to our bank accounts, rent-a-car, or flight, among other things. I would far rather the government focus on catching ID thieves (they do not, no matter how it is criminalized), focus on fake document makers for illegals and terrorists (they do not, no matter how it is criminalized, for stopping illegals in an intelligent fashion is evidently not Bush adminstration policy) and focus on stopping terrorists on the basis of their common, identifying characteristics (pssstt, I hear they're often Muslim and Arab!), instead of pressing Americans into numbers. Real ID is a joke, just as the TSA is, intended to fool Americans into accepting more intrusion under the guise of protection and security.
People like you have evidently been scared into forgetting Reagan's maxim: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Here is a copy of the appropriate part of the Lemuel Penn ruling that pertains to this matter. i've underlined the appropriate comments.
In addition, the Court observed that the statute’s wording does not require that the conspiracy be racially motivated. The Court further held that, since conspiracies can have multiple goals, it is not necessary to prove that the sole goal of interfering with a particular civil right is the main goal of the conspiracy. With regard to the federal case relating to Lemuel Penn, the Supreme Court found that the trial court erred in dismissing the part of the indictment that alleged an interference with Penn’s right to interstate travel and use the instrumentalities of interstate commerce such as highways. Subsequent federal cases found rights covered by the statute are the rights not to be killed without due process, to testify at a federal trial, to vote, and to exercise housing rights.50
States, especially a state with a large population such as New York have much more to loose than would New Hampshire in this particular case. The number of New York residents going to New Hampshire for what ever reason is far larger than the number of New Hampshire residents going to New York...remember, reciprical recognition.
So the states cannot refuse out-of-state drivers licenses, but the local 7-11 can refuse to serve you alcohol if you're out of state.
Whatever gets proposed (technically) for a Homefolks Identification Card, I'll bet that I can get dozens of these cards for under $1000 each about 2 weeks before the system goes into effect. The price will drop as the forgers get better.
The second part does not follow from the first. Having a Uniform National ID would not make control easier; it would make evasion methods different.
Note that undercover narks need fake ID's so that the gangs they penetrate cannot check on them. This breaks the security of the system from the beginning. Of course, they narks could continue as they do now, just use some ordinary person's ID (but they don't inform that person.) Similarly for spies.
The way you police ILLEGAL ALIENS is to require all LEGAL immigrants to carry a digital ID card, and digital visas .
That's all fine and good but how do you tell legal immigrants and illegal aliens from U.S. citizens?
Do you all of a sudden turn whiter and lose your accent when you become a U.S. citizen?
How do you know that the 100% Mayan-blood Mexican-American born in California is a U.S. citizen but that the blond and blue eyed Ukrainian bombshell cleaning your teeth at the dentist's office is a legal immigrant or maybe even an illegal alien?
Maybe Jarhead and I don't worry too much about ID cards since, when we were on active duty, we had to show our military ID's just to enter the base or shop at the Navy Exchange or enter the gym.
The Federal Government, your State Government, your County Government and your City Government already know exactly who you are and exactly where you live. I know because their tax forms always end up in my mailbox.
So, what, exactly, is so horrible about a National ID Card?
That fact that "Where are your papers?" was a standard line given to Nazi characters in World War II movies?
So what?
The U.S. Interstates highways are modeled after a Nazi idea......The Autobahn.
Just as we need a Passport to travel abroad.......and only to travel abroad......we can use National Id Card for only certain rare occurrences such as getting a job or flying an airplane (a potential weapon of mass destruction).
See Post 77.
When you were on active duty in the Air Force, didn't your Air Force base have BOTH a secured perimeter PLUS a "military ID card, please" policy?
No, a person doesn't become "whiter" after they become citizens(have a little agenda do you?). However, all employers are supposed to check SS numbers when they hire someone, we already have that database online and ready for use. Green cards should be tied to temporary SS numbers. If an employer checks someones SS number and it is already being used by Mary in Utah, then it can't belong to Joe in CA.
The means to check ILLEGAL ALIENS when they hire on is already at hand. We don't need a bunch of new laws and regulations gumming up the freedoms of US citizens.
Enforce the laws, jail and fine employers who hire ILLEGALS and they will deport themselves when no work is available. We have no need to turn our country into a police state to do this.
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