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To: prophetic
If illegal aliens take jobs from Americans (and they do) they take even more jobs from foreign nationals who apply by the legal route to work here and wait years for the chance. Illegal aliens steal that chance from them.

They are different groups of people, regardless of their country of origin, and the political issues that concern them are different in their effects and needs. Confusing the two may be lethal to our society, economy and sovereignty.

We already have a guest worker program, which may indeed need to be reformed. But illegal aliens are those who have not applied to be guest workers. There are 11 million of them by some estimates, 20 million by others. The only thing needing reform concerning illegal aliens is to enforce the existing laws respecting their presence and their employment here. Our sovereignty and rule-of-law demand it.

Border security is the number one problem in this debate. The flood of illegal aliens is a major factor in relation to our lack of border security but it is only one factor. There is also a matter of national security in a time of war and in an age when terrorists have set their sights on inflicting mass destruction on our society.

After the issues of border security and millions of illegal foreign nationals on our soil the matter of guest workers is very small in comparison. Until the first two problems are thoroughly and firmly addressed the guest worker issue should not even be discussed.

The President and the Senate need to get that message with unambiguous resolve.

The best methods to control the border have been studied and debated for a long time now. There are many good ideas and proven solutions. What is lacking is only the will to do it. The cost of controlling our borders will be insignificant compared to the price we will pay, both in security and economy, if we do not.

It would be nice to help everyone in the world lift themselves up out of poverty. But we cannot take that responsibility upon ourselves especially if we ignore our own welfare to the point that we are no longer prosperous.

Other nations of the world have an obligation to help their citizens every bit as much as we have to help ours. It is one thing to help other nations prosper it is quite another to relieve them of their own responsibilities. Beyond that it is simply not realistic to think that poverty can be ended around the world. We still have some in this great nation.

We must stop pandering to American employers who criminally employ illegal foreign nationals. Dry up the jobs and illegal foreign nationals will go home. Home where they can do what they must to put their houses in order just as we must put ours in order.

There is no compassion in filling a man's stomach or his pocketbook by relieving him of his responsibilities in life. Illegal aliens have abandoned their own house in order to be comfortable in ours. By so doing neither can be the master of his own house and both will be enemies in the street. This is our house, the U.S. of A., and it is our responsibility to set the rules in it.

9 posted on 04/16/2006 8:51:16 PM PDT by TigersEye (Sedition and treason are getting to be a Beltway fashion.)
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To: TigersEye

The illegal invaders and the legal immigrants are two different groups, as you say, and one would expect those who earnestly strive to comply with requirements for citizenship to also take a stand against the line-jumping invaders.

However, this article points out some groups of immigrants and illegals we haven't considered. How do Koreans get in here illegally, for example? With falsified documents? I mean, they can't sneak across the ocean...

BTW, the neighborhood I grew up in is now called 'Koreatown.' Ouch.

Then there are the naturalized immigrants, such as this Pakistani highlighted in the article, who have not assimilated and are now using the Hispanic uprising as a way of voicing (imagined or otherwise) grievances. So, these legal immigrants (although achieving the privilege and honor of U.S. citizenship) have been stirred to discontent also. I am a little concerned also that this Hamid is a "commercial pilot."

Which brings me to the last group: Middle Eastern muslims. They have not assimilated either.

We have a border problem, an illegal invasion problem and -- I think -- a serious assimilation problem.


10 posted on 04/16/2006 9:35:44 PM PDT by La Enchiladita (God Bless Our Troops...including U.S. Border Patrol, America's First Line of Defense)
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To: TigersEye

After the issues of border security and millions of illegal foreign nationals on our soil the matter of guest workers is very small in comparison. Until the first two problems are thoroughly and firmly addressed the guest worker issue should not even be discussed.
It's NOT discussed!

For a year or so, we were beaten over the head with the idea that we just had to create a "Guest Worker" program, so that "these good people who only come here to pick our lettuce" could come here, pick the damn lettuce, and then GO BACK HOME.

It was all a lie. The whole "Guest Worker" BS was used as a cudgel to soften us up to the point that we would tolerate them bringing it to the floor of the legislature. Once there, however, it instantly morphed into a fast-track CITIZENSHIP/Amnesty program for criminal aliens! NO more talk of "Guest Workers"!

WHERE is the "watchdog media" in all this? I have not heard ANY of them even MENTION this "presto-chango" act!


It would be nice to help everyone in the world lift themselves up out of poverty. But we cannot take that responsibility upon ourselves especially if we ignore our own welfare to the point that we are no longer prosperous.
We are "handing over the store" to criminal aliens who are coming here to stripmine OUR economy -- and then insulting Americans who object to this travesty by calling them "bigots" and "racists"!

This is NOT about "immigration"! That's the OTHER "Big Lie" they use to intimidate Americans into silence. The baseline "understanding" is that criminal aliens = "immigrants", and thus, anyone opposed to tolerating the criminal alien influx is therefore "anti-immigrant".

They glibly refer to "anti-immigrant" people, as if we were retrograde slugs who are opposed to legal immigration. This is a VERY crafty tactic for derailing the debate, DISHONESTLY reframing it from what it is, to put decent Americans on the defensive. It is beyond despicable.

The polite term for this tactic is "logical fallacy". A more appropriate term would get me kicked offline.

See how many politicians, pundits, "activists", and even posters that you recognize here: Introduction to Logic: Informal Fallacies


We must stop pandering to American employers who criminally employ illegal foreign nationals. Dry up the jobs and illegal foreign nationals will go home. Home where they can do what they must to put their houses in order just as we must put ours in order.
The Big Lie troweled over this subject is the idea that it would be "unamerican" to "restrict the employer's freedom to hire who he wants and pay what he wants".

The reality is that we are well on our way to establishing a "coolie economy". If it's good to go importing uneducated impoverished Mexicans illegally, because they will work for peanuts, why not import Chinese "peasants", who will work even harder, for even less? I guarantee you, give the chance, "American" employers could build shantytowns and fill them with willing Chinese, shipped here by the boatload, who would work long hours for under a dollar a day and a bowl or two of rice.

I also guarantee you that China would be more than glad to "export" their unwanted underclass. They would not only get rid of "surplus mouths to feed", but, in the process, they would also help further erode our economy.

Is this the America that the founders fought and died to give us? That generation after generation of heroes shed their blood to protect?

No.

It's nothing more than a return to the "Robber Barron" days, but worse!

America is not about "protecting the rights" of a small handful of "elites", while the vast majority of Americans are left out in the cold. No, scratch that -- they are pushed out into the cold.

There is madness in the land, and it is draping itself in the flag. This is evil, pure and simple.

15 posted on 04/17/2006 1:58:28 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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