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To: NYer
Pope Benedict XVI Thursday recounted the Biblical betrayal of Jesus by Judas, calling the apostle a double-crosser for whom "money was more important than communion with Jesus, more important than God and his love."

Benedict's traditional depiction of Judas came during his Holy Thursday homily, a week after the release of an ancient Egyptian Coptic text dubbed the "Gospel of Judas," in which Judas is portrayed not as Jesus' betrayer but as his confidant who was doing his will by handing him over to his enemies to be crucified.

I don't know about the "confidant" part; but:
Christ had to die for mens' sins.
He had to be betrayed.
Somebody had to be the betrayer.
If everyone had free will and chose not to betray him, then wouldn't men have thwarted God's purpose/intent? (which cannot happen if God is omniscient?)
So, since someone had to be the fall guy, and it happened to be Judas, is it right to diss him because he had no control over his destiny and no choice not to point-out Christ? (not, of course, like the soldiers would never have found out who he was anyway - especially since they were looking for him?)

13 posted on 04/13/2006 8:08:21 PM PDT by VeniVidiAuferi
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To: VeniVidiAuferi
So, since someone had to be the fall guy, and it happened to be Judas, is it right to diss him because he had no control over his destiny and no choice not to point-out Christ?

Nonsense! Judas had free will. That Jesus Christ knew he would betray him, neither altered nor persuaded that decision.

Imagine yourself standing by a large picture window out of which you see a small child walking into a major thoroughfare. From the corner of your eye, you see a 16 wheeler barreling down on the child. You know what is about to happen. Does your 'knowing' make it happen? Of course not.

14 posted on 04/13/2006 8:17:42 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: VeniVidiAuferi
Christ had to die for mens' sins.

Christ did not have to die for our sins. We did not have to be reconciled with God.

God chose to do this for us. He didn't have to.

He could have said I'm sick of them, I'm sending another rainstorm and nobody builds an ark this time. He could have simply said they don't want Me, I'm separating Myself forever from them, literally guaranteeing a Hell on earth.

But He didn't. He died for us and reconciled us to Him. He didn't have to.

Did Judas have to betray Christ? No. He could have stood up to temptation and pride, said this man is my friend and I'm going to do what's right. Maybe then he really would have been the hero as the Gnostics like to pretend, and the Precious Blood would not have needed to be spilled.

Or if Pilate said this man is innocent and I'm releasing Him whether you like it or not and to heck with my job. Maybe God would have accepted that as reconciliation.

Or if the Jewish authorities said "Hey, you are the Christ. We will follow."

Of course, maybe doesn't count. None of those things happened. The Crucifixion occurred followed by the Resurrection and our souls were purchased with pain.

19 posted on 04/13/2006 8:29:20 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: VeniVidiAuferi

I agree , what if Judas "saw the light " before he turned in Jesus and changed his mind ? Then where would the story go ? He was part of the grand plan .


40 posted on 04/14/2006 6:59:46 AM PDT by Tiberius109
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To: VeniVidiAuferi
Christ had to die for mens' sins. He had to be betrayed. Somebody had to be the betrayer. If everyone had free will and chose not to betray him, then wouldn't men have thwarted God's purpose/intent?

According to the gospel of John, it was the devil who prompted Judas to betray Jesus. When Jesus identified Judas by giving him bread, in order to fulfill prophecy, it was said that Satan entered Judas. I think it's reasonable that it was Satan who betrayed Jesus, and that the free will of Judas had nothing to do with it. But what do I know, I just read the Gospels to see what they say. You'll notice that on this thread there isn't much reference to them.

When the Christians decide to hate someone, it's nearly impossible to persuade them otherwise.

58 posted on 04/14/2006 8:21:28 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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