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In either case, they are trying to lend authority to the DemocRATS and their anti war movement and to hurt us in time of war.

See, I don't see things in black-and-white, good-and-evil in the political arena. I'm disillusioned with both major parties (and so am not a Republican either). Being a political independant means I can support the troops, and even the mission, without supporting the cult of personality. Gen. Zinni, for instance, is not anti-war. What he's saying is that, if we're going to salvage this mission and make it a success, it will require some serious strategic changes. If he's right - and unless you're a flag officer, you're not qulified to determine that any more than I am - than he has a moral duty to speak up now that he can do so. It's actually the patriotic thing to do.

Even Emperors need someone to tell them "Remember that thou art mortal." It's not disloyal to tell the President that he's made mistakes - even huge ones.

Good evening.
"If he's right - and unless you're a flag officer, you're not qulified to determine that any more than I am"

Nonsense. The stars just mean that an individual filled all the requirements and avoided the pitfalls.

He or she might be worthy of respect or they might not but their rank is not necessarily an indicator either way. Not all officers are good officers, but good or bad we respect the rank and not the person.

General Zinni was commissioned in 1965. He met his educational requirements and did the requisite time in grade and in command slots. He was Director of Operation Hope under HW Bush and worked his way up under clinton and his merry band until he became CiC of Centcom. If you look at all of these ex-generals who want Rummy's head, they mostly spent their DOD and CENTCOM time in Weasely Clark and Shinseki's world. That's the time that molds them.

One of the generals, Newbold was a colonel leading a MEU under Zinni in Somalia and got his star from clinton and the DemocRAT congress. He was director of Manpower, Plans and Policy at Marine HQ under a clinton Sec Def. He hung out in Italy with like minds and he hasn't been happy since bill went away. Some FReeper wrote about the golden parachute these guys get when they retire and their relationship with the military/industrial complex. It's no wonder they hate W and Rummy's way of waging war, is it.

You should give black-an-white a try. Sometimes it makes things clearer.

Michael Frazier