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To: gondramB
The United States is 1789 was not a democracy.

Thank God, it still isn't. Its a Democratic Republic. But your obvious disdain of what my ancestors created is clear enough.

and some enlightened Americans recognized that.

So the Founding Fathers were "unenlightened"?

But now its two centuries later and standards have (correctly) evolved.

The "correctly" part is your own subjective judgement. There is nothing inherently wrong with how the US was originally constituted. A free people has the right to define their own form of government for themselves.

Would you justify Islamic law executing Christian converts by pointing to similar wrongs done by Christians centuries ago?

The execution of Christians for profession of the faith, from an objective view of Christianity being Truth, is always wrong and unjustifiable. From a realistic view, converts in the Muslim world should anticipate this fate, and offer their blood as seed food for the Church, just as the martyrs of Rome did.

The execution of heretics by medieval Christian authorities is an entirely different matter, since it was a matter of capital punishment for a species of treason and renunciation of oaths.

27 posted on 04/05/2006 9:29:25 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: gondramB; Hermann the Cherusker
The execution of heretics by medieval Christian authorities is an entirely different matter, since it was a matter of capital punishment for a species of treason and renunciation of oaths.

Hermann is the only person I have ever encountered who considers medieval executions of heretics to be justified.

32 posted on 04/05/2006 10:01:33 AM PDT by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
This is a fascinating exchange...

You agree the the United States was not a democracy in 1789 but claim saying it shows my disdain for what your ancestors created.

You said "There is nothing inherently wrong with how the US was originally constituted. " and you also said apartheid South Africa was a shining example of democracy.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you forgot about the 3/5 compromise.

From a realistic view, converts in the Muslim world should anticipate this fate, and offer their blood as seed food for the Church, just as the martyrs of Rome did.

The execution of heretics by medieval Christian authorities is an entirely different matter, since it was a matter of capital punishment for a species of treason and renunciation of oaths.

You know, in Islamic countries with Sharia law, Islam is part of the state and they make the exact same argument you are making - that Christian converts are committing a crime against the state by renouncing their commitment to Islam.

Killing someone for their religious beliefs is evil. It was evil when the Catholic church did it to Jews, it was evil when it was done to Catholics who would not renounce the Catholic church in England and it is evil today.

33 posted on 04/05/2006 10:01:39 AM PDT by gondramB (Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.)
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