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Irish were Latinos of their day
The Denver Post ^ | 4/01/2006 | Bob Ewegen

Posted on 04/04/2006 5:34:55 PM PDT by neverdem

Today's rancorous debate over immigration has a parallel in the nativist reaction to the mass Irish immigration in the mid-19th century.

Spurred by the potato famine that began in 1845, 3.5 million mostly destitute Irish migrated to America by 1880 - about 7 percent of the population of 50 million. By contrast, today's 11 million unauthorized immigrants, of all nationalities, constitute just 4 percent of our population.

Contemporary immigration foes, like former Gov. Dick Lamm and Rep. Tom Tancredo, claim America can't absorb so many foreign-born without fatal damage to our economy and culture.

Yet, history shows we did just that. Today, there are 43 million Americans of Irish ancestry, a key element of the vibrant alloy that is America.

Today's nativists argue we can't compare today's illegal immigrants to the Irish, because the Irish came here legally. That's technically true, but the 19th century wave was just as uncontrolled, because America had virtually no bars to immigration in those days.

Kenneth Ackerman's book, "Boss Tweed: The Rise and Fall of the Corrupt Pol Who Conceived the Soul of Modern New York," details how the desperate Irish were welcomed at the docks by the political machine that provided the only social safety net in that era.

Tweed minions would help the newcomers find housing and work and, if there was an election in the offing, they would swiftly be naturalized as citizens in mass ceremonies by Tweed's judges, so they could vote for their benefactors.

Cartoonist Thomas Nast, who hated Irish and Catholics with equal fervor, pandered to the nativist bigotry by depicting Irishmen as drunken, subhuman brutes. The accompanying Nast cartoon depicts the role immigrants played in supporting Tweed by showing an Irish thug and a Catholic priest carving up the Democratic Party goose that laid the golden eggs.

But though the Irish were despised, they were still admitted through America's golden door. That's because Americans needed them to do our dirty work.

The first generations of Irish worked largely at unskilled and semiskilled occupations, but their children found themselves working at increasingly skilled trades. By 1900, when Irish Americans made up about 8 percent of the male labor force, they were almost a third of the plumbers, steamfitters and boilermakers. Their places at the bottom of the ladder were taken by newly arrived laborers from southern and eastern Europe.

Today, those dirty, low-paying, jobs are being taken by Latinos. But if history is any guide, the daughter of that Latina who scrubs your floor today may be the doctor who delivers my granddaughter's baby a generation hence.

To some, that is a frightening prospect. But I think Clio, the muse of history, would join with Lady Liberty herself to say:

Bienvenidos, Americanos nuevos.

Bob Ewegen is The Denver Post's deputy editorial page editor.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Colorado; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; irish; irishamericans; latinos
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To: neverdem

<< Irish were Latinos of their day >>

Bullshit. A canard. A distraction. A red herring.

And absolutely irrelevant.

To focus on whether the illiterate and unassimilable third-world foreigner hordes that comprise todays borders, language and culture coroding Criminal Alien Invasion are so-called "latinos" or are Martians -- or even Irish [As many are] -- is to absolutely miss the point.

Which is that the topic is America's Founding and sustaining Law, without whose strong support from us all our nation will not long survive any who are alive today.


201 posted on 04/04/2006 9:28:37 PM PDT by Brian Allen (How arrogant are we to believe our career political-power-lusting lumpen somehow superior to theirs?)
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To: devolve

I know.


202 posted on 04/04/2006 9:29:10 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: danmar
the Irish managed to melt in the American way of been American with emphasis on their heritage.

True, but it was a long, painful process that took over 60 years. Mass immigration of the late 19th century fueled the rise of ethnic ghettos, corrupt political machines, ethnic gangs and wars, and the like. It wasn't pretty. Now we're all Americans, but a lot of blood, tears and sweat were spilt along the way. I see no reason why we should put ourselves through that again.

203 posted on 04/04/2006 9:40:42 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: devolve

That is AWESOME!


204 posted on 04/04/2006 10:11:29 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: neverdem

The "Irish" aren't all the same. The Irish this article talks about are the Irish catholics that came here after the potato famine of 1848. There were a lot of wealthier Irish protestants that came to the colony in Virginia during the 1730's.


205 posted on 04/04/2006 10:51:00 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: ran15

"And many following the Pope's lead in being against the Iraq war."

The pope who criticized the Iraq war isn't pope anymore and those Irish-American public figures who opposed the war tend to be pro-abortion, so I doubt that they take orders from the pope.


206 posted on 04/04/2006 11:02:07 PM PDT by Revenge of Sith
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To: curiosity
"Why should we go through that painful process again with another group that is even more backward the the Irish of the mid-19th century?"

It was that bad with the Irish and they didn't get to collect welfare and they all spoke English! Plus during those years when the Irish came into America we were having wild growth unlike anything thats ever been seen before and might never been seen anywhere on earth. We had industrialization mixed with almost unlimited land. Now America is almost completely settled, and we are sending our industry overseas. Why do we need millions of immigrants?
207 posted on 04/04/2006 11:04:48 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: the invisib1e hand

It cost a lot of money to book passage on a ship bound for America, then you had to endure weeks on board a boat, most likely 3rd class or steerage, etc. My grandfather came over in 1912 through Canada, then sent for my grandmother and their 3 kids 3 months later after he got a job and saved up the money for their tickets. It was quite an ordeal even in those days (less than 100 years ago), and I don't envy either of them their "adventure." But they did it the right way - legally and above board.


208 posted on 04/04/2006 11:13:27 PM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: HungarianGypsy

The so-called potato famine Irish Catholics came starting in the 1840s, long, long before Ellis Island opened in 1890.

http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_timeline.asp

Historical facts are our friends.


209 posted on 04/04/2006 11:25:36 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: hosepipe
The wetbacks are proud that their government is a Drug Cartel.. proud of a history of assuming the position to a group of elites.. proud of the concepts of peon and patron.. proud of a whole history and culture of loosing freedom to banditos..

The Mexican culture is a culture of banditos.. and victims..
The Mexicans are NOT Irish.. or even Canadians that have some of the same culture..

I have the same low opinion of Mexico and of the Mexicans that come here. Same for Central Americans. Ireland is a civilized country today. Mexico is not. There are good Mexican immigrants but they are overwhelmed by the bad and I deeply resent their massive wave of illegal immigration.

210 posted on 04/04/2006 11:32:21 PM PDT by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: truth_seeker
The so-called potato famine Irish Catholics came starting in the 1840s, long, long before Ellis Island opened in 1890. http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_timeline.asp Historical facts are our friends.

What are you saying? Those Irish were illegal immigrants, therefore it's OK for Mexicans to also be illegal immigrants.

Those Irish were not illegal immigrants!

211 posted on 04/04/2006 11:36:55 PM PDT by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: HungarianGypsy
The difference between Irish and Mexicans is that Irish people are not physically about to do hard work like Mexicans.

Irish are a weaker race. Just ask John McCain.

212 posted on 04/04/2006 11:40:30 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope

about = able

sorry


213 posted on 04/04/2006 11:43:27 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: ansel12

So how does the Rebel Yell go?


214 posted on 04/04/2006 11:49:33 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: dennisw

"What are you saying? Those Irish were illegal immigrants, therefore it's OK for Mexicans to also be illegal immigrants.

Those Irish were not illegal immigrants!"

I said nothing of the kind. Merely correcting the oft-mistaken claim that particular groups of immigrants (in this case Irish Catholic potato famine types) came through Ellis Island, which didn't open until 1892.

Those Irish immigrants started coming in the 1840s, long before Ellis Island. As I understand, we had no laws restricting immigration. Those Irish immigrants were "legal," along with any others who came prior to 1892.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't claim to know all about the history of immigration. The point of the article was that the Irish were looked down on, very much, yet did assimilate and move up the economic ladder.

It therefore implies the same could be expected from illegal immigrants' offspring in the future. I take no position on that.


215 posted on 04/05/2006 12:25:52 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: neverdem
I don't have a problem with immigrants, and I'd be fine with accepting 7 million legal immigrants.
216 posted on 04/05/2006 12:31:21 AM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: HungarianGypsy
You are dead wrong. THERE WAS NO ELLIS ISLAND BACK THEN; THERE WASN'T EVEN CASTLE GARDEN; WHICH PREDATED ELLIS ISLAND BY MANY DECADES!

When the first wave of Irish immigrants came here, in the 1840s, their ships docked at ports IN N.Y. harbor and there wasn't an immigration anything/anybody on hand. As the article sates, those who met the Irish were damned DEMOCRATS! And Boss Tweed USED the worst of the worst Irish thugs their gangs to scare, drag, and/or beat people to the voting places and told them WHO to vote for. They also stuffed ballot boxes.

BTW, if you think that Mexican gangs are bad, try reading about the old Irish ones.

217 posted on 04/05/2006 12:35:00 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: Nachum
Welfare didn't exist back then, but the dole did. And yes, many Irish were "on the dole".

Nope, the Irish didn't want to make bits of America into part of Ireland, but they did and some still DO, fund the Sein Fein (sp? )/IRA...a TERRORIST organization.

They also caused and were the main murdering and ravaging participants of the DRAFT RIOTS...hunting down and beating and lynching blacks and setting an orphanage for black children on fire and killing many of those poor children.

218 posted on 04/05/2006 12:39:38 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: the invisib1e hand
Many illegals DID get into America, when Ellis Island WAS in full bore; however, Ellis Island is just the LAST of N.Y.'s immigration centers and the Irish of the 1840s just got off the boat and had to pass through NOTHING.
219 posted on 04/05/2006 12:41:56 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: truth_seeker

Fine. I mistook your comment for one that is commonly made: that since people immigrated here pretty much unrestricted (no immigration laws) at one time, that it's OK for Mexicans and others to do it today.


220 posted on 04/05/2006 12:46:05 AM PDT by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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