Posted on 04/04/2006 9:58:28 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
My husband jokes that I should have been an electrician. In this age of outsourcing and job insecurity, the trades seem to us to be the best professions of the future. To be sure, most aren't glamorous and are often physically demanding. But a number seem to have financial security and stability, and their job portability doesn't hurt, either. Many of us white-collar employees don't get to choose where we will live; we must go wherever our employer requires us. Many folks in the trades can command a good income, choose their own hours, and put down roots in a community and stay as long as they choose. I wish I had this luxury.
Both my husband and I are Ph.D. chemists. I'd once wanted to be an opera singer. I come from a long line of writers and musicians, but I had the (mis)fortune of being good at science. In college, the thinking was that the sciences (and an advanced degree) would guarantee me some sense of employment security. Pursuing opera would subject me to the unemployment line, I thought, at least until my career took off. I could sing on the side, but by making medicines that make people well, I could make a meaningful difference in the world.
I could never have predicted the difficulties that I'd face. I followed my husband from Virginia (where we went to graduate school) to Maine, where my husband found a job, and then to Oregon, where we live now. In Maine, I was out of work for almost a year. I went to four temp agencies before I found one that would place me. I was turned away from administrative-level positions because I didn't have "admin experience." I worked retail and part-time jobs. Eventually, I learned to leave my Ph.D. off my resume, which helped me land my first serious job. It didn't pay well, but at least it was serious.
When we moved to Oregon, where my husband had accepted another job, and I found myself interviewing again. I worked for a biotech company, handling their patents and licenses, but this company didn't care about my expensive chemistry degree. I now work at an advertising agency where I (Shhh!) barely earn above minimum wage. The agency ran an ad for the assistant position I now hold and received 60 applications the next day.
It just doesn't seem right. I was valedictorian of my high-school class of 600, summa cum laude from my university, and graduated with distinction from graduate school. And none of this seems to have made the least bit of difference in helping me to build a career. At age 30, I feel grateful to have a job at all, because there are few in my part of Oregon.
My situation is hardly unique. My husband and I know plenty of people with advanced degrees (Ph.D., MS, J.D., and MBA) who have had this problem. In many cases, it's the "two-body problem," where both spouses hold advanced degrees. For some, it's because they choose to live in smaller cities, where opportunity is limited. But often it seems as if the job market isn't able to absorb all the advanced-degree holders at the pace colleges and universities are churning them out. Where are all these people going to work?
I am planning to go back to school this fall. Another doctorate. I have decided to make use of my Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry and become a pharmacist. I still dream of being able to make my own destiny, to carve my own path. A person of some intelligence who worked hard and had the right attitude used to be able to do that. Right now, my Ph.D. and $3.65 gets me a Cinnamon Dolce Latte at Starbucks, and not much more.
My dad often used to say, "Life does not reward us for efforts expended." I have learned the hard way that there are no guarantees in life, and that you can have all the determination in the world, and sometimes the opportunities just aren't there.
In this new world order, where jobs of every stripe are outsourced, and job security or opportunity can be a scarce commodity, one could do a lot worse than to be a electrician.
Yeah. I have no idea what to advise my son to be when he grows up.
Not here in the Northwest. Lots of graduate-degreed computer science types out of work. One company I did contract work just fired their entire IT staff, (several dozen people) but made them train their oriental Indian replacements before they could get their separation packages.
Between that and outsourcing, I agree completely with this gal.
Just as an aside, I was replaced by three H1-B's on a recent job.
did the government skew the job market for history teachers by bringing in 10s of thousands of them from overseas to take job slots in the US?
imagine what would have if the government tried to do this to public school teachers? there would be nationwide strikes.
Chemists with bachelor's degrees and less than a year of experience earn a median starting annual salary of $32,500, according to a survey of 2003-2004 graduates from the American Chemical Society (ACS). Chemists with master's degrees earn a median annual salary of $43,600 and those with doctorates earn a median $65,000.
Source: The Wall Street Journal
The fact that you think that there is a mystical, preordained number of "job slots" available in any profession is a flaw in your analysis.
imagine what would have if the government tried to do this to public school teachers? there would be nationwide strikes.
There are plenty of immigrants teaching in US public schools. Unions don't care about immigration as long as immigrants join their union and help them to screw over employers.
the point is - why go to college for years, take on education loans - to end up being a roofer?
all you hear about in the US is how we need to spend more on education - we are spending so much on it now, at every level of government, its killing taxpayers.
for what future jobs are we educating our people for? how much education do you need to install a bathroom? or to be a chef?
Why a bad analogy? Don't lose sight of my original point. Cutting-edge business or industry knowledge cannot be outsourced; code development--once that knowledge is translated, can be. I'm merely suggesting that Einstein could not have outsourced knowledge that was his alone. As I understand his theories--few others on earth could've written specifications on relativity without explicit knowledge transfer from Einstein himself.
immigrants (legal ones) entering a field is one thing.
a special easy visa system to bring in people targeted at a particular field, like technology jobs, is something else.
hey, why can't we have distance learning in public scshools? who needs a US teacher making $80K, let's broadcast a math class in via the net from India - where the math teacher makes $25K.
think the public school teachers unions in the US would stand for that? LOL! government would shut that program down in about 2 minutes.
Yep! Elva Angelique Van Devender: "wanted to be an opera singer...come from a long line of writers and musicians...my husband and I are Ph.D....my expensive chemistry degree...I was valedictorian...summa cum laude from my university...and graduated with distinction...A person of some intelligence…"
And has only been able to land minimum wage jobs, something just doesn't add up here. (Investigate: crazy, interpersonal skills, arrogance, superiority complex, lazy, entitled.)
A more pertinent question with regard to your point is: what does oceanview propose to do about the scarcity of jobs for doctors of medicinal chemistry in the greater Corvallis, Oregon metropolitan area?
Although it's true that we are rapidly moving to a more services based economy, your statement ignores the fact that the U.S still leads the world in just about every area of technology. The direct impetus for technological innovation and progress is, and has been, the entrepreneurial search for profits and the competitive economy. We are more focused on science and technology now than at any other time in our history. Just one example: Ninety-percent of all new drugs introduced in the world today are created in the U.S.
There aren't enough careers for all these scientists,
There have never been enough good careers for all the scientists and engineers we graduate. Our universities graduate a large amount of mediocre talent. Only the best will be sought by industry.
the best bet is to look for the number one employers-- the federal government or academia... for those who detest socialism in all it's forms, this makes for tough choices.
Nonsense. If you're talented, highly motivated and know how to create value, then private industry should be the career path of choice. Many of the millionaires being created in Silicon Valley, and other tech heavy areas, have science or engineering degrees. One year recently, Fortune Magazine reported that there were more CEO's with engineering degrees than any other educational background.
(PhD ten years, over a hundred scientific publications in molecular biology, brilliant man and EXTREMEMLY hard working) just turned forty two and has never made over $38,000 a year...
He must be working toward a specific goal where paying these kinds of dues is required. There is no reason for him to be paid so poorly otherwise. We have bench chemists who earn much more than that with just an undergrad degree.
my point being a disaffected professional class and/or middle class historically has led to ruinous forms of government.
Anyone smart enough and disciplined enough to receive a PhD in any science has only themselves to blame if they cannot find a decent job. Of course, there are many of these people who have a very difficult time functioning in the real world. For them, maybe staying in the protected world of academia or even in government is the best place to be. However, to encourage anyone, who is self motivated and possesses the smarts to earn an advanced degree in science, not to pursue such a degree just doesn't make much sense to me.
That sounds extremely odd(...)
No, it doesn't. This is what postdocs make. This is also the reason why most graduate students and postdocs are foreigners. Americans, who are better informed than foreigners and are not limited by any visas, avoid academia.
I am a free-market capitalist if there was ever one born, so I agree with much of what you said, just stating my opinions... As a nation, our search for profit is leaning out the technology base here at home and creating growth in the service industries. Yeah we lead the world still, but a lot of the work is not done here. You mention Silicon Valley, and maybe you're right, but that is the exception, not the norm. Imy area it is a different story, as it is in much of the East and South East... for those with aging parents, who are part of a community of faith, or whose careers are coordinated with their spouse, or who own lots of scary guns, Kalifornia may not be an option... and yeah, I know, that's their decision and I agree. Again, I agree that anyone with an advanced degree who can't find a good job has only themselves to blame; but I also think that considering the expense of the education, the lost wage-years of a graduate education and the dynamic nature and narrow range of employment opportunities... it isn't worth it-- not where we as a nation are now, and especially not where we are heading. Based on Hayek's work (Road to serfdom), I would suggest government employment /moderate sarcasm
This yet another reason why academic employment sucks. The academic career hasn't changed much since Eisenhower was president - most universities are in the middle of nowhere and junior faculty are expected to uproot several times. In those days, scientist's spouse was a hosewife, very often a former student.
Nowadays, women want to have their own careers, which is very hard to do if you move every two years from one small town to another. A good profession for her would be one where opportunites are spread evenly across the country - e.g. a bookkeeper or a pharmacist (she got that right!)
Based upon recent threads, a lot of people believe the "we are not graduating enoth math and science majors" tale.
"that industry is lying, there is no shortage"
Bingo!
But the very actions these companies are taking are guaranteed to produce one.
However, the same source says:
Recent electrical-engineering and chemical-engineering graduates earn average annual starting salaries of $51,773 and $53,639, respectively, according to a fall 2005 survey by the National Association of Colleges and Employers in Bethlehem, Pa.
So, if you like chemistry, become a chemical engineer rather than a chemist.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.