[Travis McGee]

The amount of historical idiocy and fallacies surrounding this subject is staggering, chief among them the "Aztlan" fairy tales. What's the truth? How did the Spanish Europeans conquer the Southwest? The "conquistatores" (that means "conquerers" did it with the lance, and the lash.

For example, in 1541 Coronado entered present-day New Mexico searching for "cities of gold," and one of his first actions on meeting the natives was to burn 100s of them alive in their dwellings, for not handing over suspected horse thieves. This is how Spain conquered the natives of the present US Southwest--not nicely! It was certainly no love-fest between long-lost brown-skinned soul-mates, as it is often portrayed today by the Aztlaners today!

By 1821, Mexico City was strong enough to overthrow even more decrepit and ineffectual Spanish rule. However, the distant provinces of the current US Southwest were far beyond the reach of the authority of independent but strife-torn Mexico. These distant northern provinces received neither military assistance nor needed levels of trade from the south. For example, Comanches ran rampant in the 1830s in this power vacuum, burning ranches that had been around for a hundred years and massacring their inhabitants. Mexico City could neither defend nor keep the allegiance of its nominal citizens in these regions. Nor could it provide needed levels of trade to sustain the prior Spanish-era standard of living.

Meanwhile, a growing America was making great inroads, via ships into California, and via wagon trains of trade goods over the Santa Fe Trail from St. Louis. The standard of living of the SPANISH in these states subsequently increased enormously, which is why they did not support Mexico City in the 1846-48 war. In fact, the Spanish-speaking inhabitants of the Southwest NEVER considered themselves "Mexicans" at all, ever. They went, in their own eyes, from SPANISH directly to AMERICAN.

So how long did Mexico City have even nominal control over the Southwest? 25 years, during which they had no effective control, and the area slipped backwards until the arrival of the Americans. Since then, how long has the area been under firm American control? For 150 continuous years.

And now, we are supposed to let any Mexican from Chiapas, Michoacan or Yucatan march into the American Southwest, and make some "historical claim" of a right to live there? From where does this absurd idea spring?

At what point in history did Indians from Zacatecas or Durango stake a claim on the American Southwest? Neither they nor their ancestors ever lived for one single day in the American Southwest. The Spanish living in the Southwest in 1846 stayed there, and became Americans by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

No current inhabitants of Mexico have ANY claim on even one single inch of the Southwest! They are criminal invaders and colonizers, pure and simple.

[Das Outsider]

And now, we are supposed to let any Mexican from Chiapas, Michoacan or Yucatan march into the American Southwest, and make some "historical claim" of a right to live there? From where does this absurd idea spring?

Right. The Southwest definitely belongs to Mexican people, or so the thinking goes--which people is not so definite.

The Aztlan movement--as much as I am reluctant to draw the comparison--does depend on race myths similar in form to those of Adolf Hitler and his ilk.

[tertiary01]

There's plenty of empty roadless desert land, which is exactly as they would have left it if their fairy tale of past inhabitation of the Southwest was true. I say the Feds should offer 20 acres of empty desert BLM land and if they make a go of it in 5 years, after at least one member of their family does a stint in the military they can apply for citizenship.

[LS]

Matt, the whole business of the Spanish conquering the Aztecs in the first place is merely the story of one semi-despotic empire replacing a far more despotic one. Everyone points to Cortez's horses, guns, and even disease, but as we show in "Patriot's History of the United States," he had only 80 horse, perhaps 100 musketeers and crossbowmen, and the smallpox epidemics had ravaged Tenochtitlan a full year before Cortez returned to win his final victory---and besides, I don't think smallpox knew who was an Aztec and who was a Spaniard. It spread more among the Indians because of their tendency to sleep a dozen or so in a room.

What really tipped the scales in Cortez's favor, of course---obviously besides the "western way of war"---was the fact that he had 25,000 Indian allies who blocked off the escape routes, and forced the Aztecs to fight him in the narrow streets where their numbers were meaningless.

[exhaustedmomma]

Glad your back Travis, your voice and input is greatly needed!

This thread of "history" is fine, but, for centuries countries have fought over land. Nothing new here, except, we are at a cross-roads as a nation.
Our Marines went into the halls of Montezuma then; people fought in the Alamo for a cause. Do we have the grit today as Americans? That's what concerns me. Our laws are seemingly worthless.
Globalization. One World. Countries without borders. I am sick of hearing it and sicker of living it. They have no claim, true, unless we allow them claim. I know I am preaching to the choir. I am appalled. I am concerned. They are criminal invaders and colonizers, pure and simple. They have an agenda. This isn't paranoia from those who voice "concern and objection" to this. It is curious why our government fiddle-faddles on this issue. Bottom line: We don't know who, how many or where they are. This is bigger than "jobs Americans don't want to do."

[sean327]

Awsome post! I am hispanic, born and raised in New Mexico, and what you have said is on the money. Mexico never controled the Southwest. The Spanish families of New Mexico were left to fend for themselves after Mexico defeated Spain. The fact that Mexico did nothing to stop the Comanche, Navajo, and Apache raids has never been forgotten.
There is also a deep resentment against Mexicans legal and illegal in the hispanic community, especially in Northern New Mexico. Some might even call it racism, but it all goes back to Mexico's failure to fulfill it's obligation to defend it's citizens. The U.S. filled this void, and earned the alligence of these families, who in turn have passed this on to their children.

[SpyGuy]

And now, we are supposed to let any Mexican from Chiapas, Michoacan or Yucatan march into the American Southwest, and make some "historical claim" of a right to live there? From where does this absurd idea spring?

That's the "beauty" of propaganda: it doesn't have to be accurate to be influentially effective. In fact, typically, it's not (accurate).

A larger problem we're facing is not just that Mexicans and OTMs believe in this Aztlan crap, but so do many Americans thanks to the anti-American propaganda pushed in our schools, universities, and popular media.