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To: OrangeDaisy

Lots of things happened in Acts that do not happen anywhere else. It's called a transition book for good reason. The Gospel was about to be preached to the Gentiles, who did not seek after a sign as did the Jews.

So baptism as an OUTWARD sign of the inward change was very important in the lives of these Jewish believers.

It didn't save them, but it did add them to the church, as the Bible says.

I believe that salvation is fully by Grace, not of any work that man can do, inclduing baptism.

Salvation by baptism is a belief that started with the Catholic church and continues there today.


406 posted on 04/05/2006 8:48:32 PM PDT by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court

You are saying that you believe in baptism for believers but I don't understand that as anyone has to believe first before they would even be thinking about baptism.

You hear the word, think it over and believe it or not. Then you decide - yes, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and he died for me. Then - if you believe - you want to know what you are to do be saved, so - you see repent of your sins and be baptised for the remission of those sins and you will be saved. (You are already in the belief and acceptance stage).

We are also told that in baptism we are buried with Christ and we arise a new person free of all past sins and we then have the gift of the Holy Spirit living in us.

Seems like splitting hairs to me. And, the Baptists claim they are saved by faith - but, that faith is not expressed by faithfully following the verses in the Bible that say repent and be baptised. So, where is the faith?

Just discussing here - no offense.


408 posted on 04/05/2006 11:30:21 PM PDT by ClancyJ (Is the primary goal of our Congress to protect America's borders?)
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To: Full Court

" It (baptism) didn't save them, but it did add them to the church, as the Bible says."

IMO, I think this is where a difference of opinion exists...

Some people believe that when you are saved, you are automatically a member of the Lord's church and there is not a seperate ceremony or statement of faith or commitment or whatever. I'm not sure that any of us know the actual moment that happens as I believe salvation is a process. I believe it says in Acts that THOSE WHO WERE BEING SAVED WERE ADDED TO THE CHURCH. It doesn't say that they were voted on or asked to be members, but to me, implies that it was automatic. GOD added them. I hadn't heard Acts called a book of transition, but it gives the history of the early church, so I would think it would be considered valid whether it is applied to Jews or Greeks, etc.

Why would or how could one be saved and NOT a member of the church???

Also, IMO, the 'work' done in baptism is God's work, not a work done by a believer...it is something done in obedience to God's word. Besides faith without works is dead, but I think that's already been discussed here.

Whoever spoke for "mainline" churches of Christ is misinformed. There may be individual congregations that have some of the beliefs presented, but there is a lot of variation from congregation to congregation.

I believe we will be judged as individuals and not as congregations or denominations anyway and God will be fair and just.

It is our job to continue to study and grow. Many people change their opinions about issues over the years when they realize what they have been taught is a tradition rather than a command. It has happened to me and I'm sure God will show me more ways that I need to change in the future. Peace.


412 posted on 04/06/2006 7:41:36 PM PDT by gloryadt
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