Posted on 04/01/2006 6:40:33 PM PST by twippo
SELMER, Tenn. - Mary Winkler was the quiet, unassuming wife of a small-town, by-the-Bible preacher, seemingly devoted to church and family. But now her husband, Matthew, is dead and she is charged with shooting him in the back with a shotgun.
Authorities won't discuss a motive, and church members say they didn't see any indication she was unhappy. But experts say preachers' wives often struggle with depression and isolation, expected to be exemplars of Christian virtue while bearing unique pressures on their private and public lives.
Gayle Haggard, author of "A Life Embraced: A Hopeful Guide for the Pastor's Wife," said ministers' wives can feel isolated because of a misconception about leadership, since they and their husbands are leaders of their congregations.
They can feel trapped, she said, by unrealistic expectations "to live a certain way, to dress a certain way, for their children to behave a certain way."
And ministers' wives often find themselves handling more jobs than they expected to take on, said Becky Hunter, current president of the Global Pastors Wives Network.
"You're not really hired, and yet there is some expectation in most church settings that the pastor's wife comes along in a package deal," Hunter said.
Too often, ministers and their wives are reluctant to seek emotional help from members of their congregations because they're looked up to as leaders, said Lois Evans, a former president of the Global Pastors Wives Network. They can become isolated, lonely and depressed.
"This family needed help," said Evans. "It seems like there was no place to turn to and no place to talk and it became an explosive situation."
Matthew Winkler, 31, was found dead in a bedroom at the couple's parsonage Wednesday night in Selmer, a town of 4,400 people about 80 miles east of Memphis. Mary Winkler, 32, and her three young daughters were found Thursday night leaving a restaurant in Orange Beach, Ala., about 340 miles from Selmer. Orange Beach Police Chief Billy Wilkins said she had rented a condo on the beach after the slaying.
She was charged with first-degree murder and ordered held without bail. Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agent John Mehr said authorities know the motive for the killing, but he would not disclose it.
Mary Winkler was working part-time as a substitute teacher and taking college courses to get a teaching certificate as well as raising her three children and serving the congregation as its preacher's wife.
"You know she was weighted down," said Jimmie Smith, a member of Matthew Winkler's Fourth Street Church of Christ congregation and a retired psychiatric nurse.
Defense lawyer Steve Farese refused to talk about the Winklers' private life or if they had personal troubles.
"I can't discuss anything she's told me," Farese said. "But I think you have to look at the entire picture. You can't look at the end of a story and determine what the beginning and middle were."
I am not familiar with that name or with the ICC other than what I learned online.
However, I do know there was a renegade group that did infiltrate churches and "turn" then from within years ago. I thought it was the Boston church or something. I remember it being whispered about and kind of unspoken of.
Yet - I know I am very sensitive to change in beliefs, unfamiliar practices and new ideas BECAUSE of the fear it means we are being infiltrated with ill intent.
In fact, I left one more liberal church because I weekly worried about things I saw in the service. We would drive home justifying that it did not mean anything, people were individuals, etc. - but I finally decided I wanted to go where I did not have to do that worrying. I wanted elders I could trust to hold us to biblical teachings and I could quit being a judge during services.
I have and there's nothing sinful about it. If JC can eat with Matthew, who a tax collector, and make him a disciple... there ain't nothing wrong with having a drink in a bar.
"I wanted elders I could trust to hold us to biblical teachings and I could quit being a judge during services."
You are at a mainline CofC... you just don't know it.
The COC does not believe it is the sole remnant of anything. We believe we are following God's instruction on what to do for salvation. Now, if we follow God's instruction for salvation, doesn't that mean we are in His church?
Do others have to follow God's instruction or do they just get to determine what they believe?
We would then have millions of ways to get salvation. But, we have one God giving that salvation. I would think it would behoove us to find out what God says is needed for salvation. If you go to the bible to find out and follow the instructions, you too will become a member of the church of Christ. Christ is the head of the church, and when you follow the bible instructions on believing and salvation, (not man's determined creed, not a separate instruction book) you too will be a Christian and a member of Christ's church as spelled out in the Bible.
Does that explain where you get we are saying we are the sole remnant or something? Of course we say we are members of Christ's church because we are. Of course we feel that this is what God intended because we intend to do what God intended and went to the Bible to find out.
Now can you say the same of denominations or churches that have come up with their own version of what is correct? Are they following what is spelled out in the Bible or what they determined the people should believe?
I know where I am - as I have been a member of the Church of Christ for going on 50 years and have attended many churches of Christ my entire life. I don't need you to tell me what church I am attending.
I do not know what you are talking about. I don't know what renegade group you landed in and then proclaimed that all Churches of Christ were like your renegade group.
All churches of Christ are independent - there is no governing board. Each is lead by the local elders put in place by members and they are the shepherds for the congregation. I mentioned earlier I became worried about the activities of one church (minor things) and I left for one that I did not feel was trying to drift.
You might have been involved in a group that drifted, become corrupted or whatever. Yet - I know what churches I have been in, I know what churches other COC posters here represent and I can tell by their postings revealing their beliefs that they are regular Church of Christ members.
A cult will pull you away from family.
A cult will exert mind control, brain washing tactics.'
A cult will not tell you to go to the Bible for verification of tactics.
A cult will have a leader making all decisions for you.
We are not a cult and resent those posters familiar with a church or two that try and destroy all churches seeking to follow God's word. Shame on you for that. The churches you attended are the only churches you can speak about.
Again, that is a judgemental decision that I will leave in the hands of God. People stray but might see the error of their ways and ask God for forgiveness. Man does not see the heart of others - only God sees the true person.
Jesus died for us and we are saved by grace - not by our works.
That's not so hard.
Many atheists don't get married. They just hookup for a while and move on.
But do you believe that someone can lose their salvation? And need to be re-saved?
That's true, but most churgoers would frown on you knowing that you'd set foot inside a bar. After all they are all above reproach (at least in their minds they are!)
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
I will start with verse 18. For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God. One cannot escape the conclusion that the apostles of our Lord were Christ-intoxicated men. It is highly significant that they did not write on any theme associated with redemption without being immediately reminded of and alluding to, their matchless leader and guide. Peter’s reference to suffering wrongfully for righteousness sake brought immediately to his mind the one who, above all others, suffered in this manner; and he is offered as in I Pet 2:21-25, as a pattern for other innocent suffers.
Each word in this text is vitally significant. Christ “suffered”; and he suffered “for” our sins. The Greek word translated as “for” is the word peri; meaning “concerning”. He suffered concerning our sins once and for all, it not being necessary to make continual offerings as under the old Law of Moses; and the design of his offering was “that he might bring us to God”. Through his suffering we now have access to God (Rom 5:2), and are privileged to come boldly to the throne of grace (Heb 10:19); through once afar off (Eph 2:17), we have been brought near by the blood of Christ (Eph 2:13). It is significant that there is no article before the words “just” and “unjust” (some translations have “righteous” and “unrighteous”) in the original text. The meaning is, a just person suffering for or on behalf of an unjust person, a fact without which the blood of Jesus would have been no more effective than any other man.
being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit- Two things are affirmed of the Lord in this statement; (1) he was put to death in flesh (there is no article before either “flesh” or “spirit” in this affirmation); and (2) he was made alive in spirit. “In flesh” (sarki) and “in spirit” (Pneumati) are locatives, indicative of the sphere in which the action occurred. “Put to death” and “made alive” are aorist passive participles, thus pointing to a definite occasion when these events happened. The meaning is, the sphere of death, for our Lord, was in the flesh; the sphere in which he was made alive was in the spirit. Death affected only his flesh; for from dying in the spirit, here he was made alive. The “spirit” alluded to in this verse is, therefore that divine spirit which Jesus possesses in common with all men, and which was not affected by the death which he suffered. Why should it be asserted that in this spirit he was made alive? It should be remembered that it was Peter’s purpose to show that though Christ suffered death this, far from terminating his existence or destroying his influence, merely enabled him to be energized, brought to active life in the realm of the spirit. His spirit, instead of perishing in death, was clothed with renewed and enhanced powers of life. At death, this spirit passed into a new sphere of existence, hence was said to have been made alive.
by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison - In this spirit he preached. What was preached is not stated. This preaching was done to “spirits in prison”. They are called “spirits” because they were in a disembodied state when Peter wrote; and they were “in prison” i.e. under restraint as wicked beings. “In Prison” is of frequent usage to denote the state or condition of those spirits which because of disobedience await condemnation at the last day. (2 Pet 2:4; Jude 6; Rev. 20:7). It should be noted that Peter does not declare that these who were the objects of this preaching were in a disembodied state and in prison when the preaching was done; such was their condition when he wrote. The period in which such lived in the flesh, and the time when this preaching was done is clearly stated in the verse which follows.
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, - These spirits were once in the flesh; they were once upon a time disobedient; the period of their disobedience was “while the ark was being prepared”; and during this period Christ preached to them. What one does through an authorized agent, he is said to do himself (1 John 4:1), hence Christ, in the person of Noah, preached to the antediluvians during the period in which the ark was being constructed; and these, having rejected this preaching died in disobedience, and were under restraint in the spirit realm when Peter wrote. The meaning of the passage, simply and briefly put, in this: Christ preached; he preached “in spirit: to “spirits in prison”. These spirits in prison were wicked persons who lived while the ark was “being prepared”. The preaching which Christ did was through Noah. Those to whom the preaching was done were bound in the prison house of disobedient spirits at the time the letter Peter wrote was penned.
Demonstrated in the events associated with the ark and the flood was the “Devine longsuffering”, that is the longsuffering of God. One hundred and twenty years were especially designated as the probationary period afforded men (Gen 6:3). During this period there must have been many opportunities afforded the antediluvian world to turn in penitence to the Lord. These were, for the most part, rejected.
in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. - into the ark, in order to be saved the eight souls went. Being saved in it through the means of water. They were saved in the ark, and by the water; the ark protected them from the flood, and the water bore up the ark, the means of their salvation from the old world. The eight souls saved were Noah, his wife, their sons and their wives. Noah was a preacher of righteousness. (2 Pet 2:5). Though he continued his preaching through the period in which the ark was being constructed, only those of his family were finally induced to avail themselves of the protection it afforded. Those saved in the ark were “saved through water”.
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism - The antecedent of “antitype” is the “water” alluded to in verse 20, not, however the water of the flood, but water generally, and in this clause identified as the water of baptism. The apostle thus affirms that water, utilized in baptism, “an antitype” of that characteristic of the deliverance of Noah and his family from the old world, now saves. “An antitype which now saves us-baptism” is literally in the Greek text, “which antitype is now saving you, even baptism”. The salvation of Noah and those with him is thus made a type of the deliverance which a sinner receives in passing through the waters of baptism. The “antitype” obtains in the following manner: (1) the waters of the flood bore up the ark and delivered its occupants from the destruction of the antediluvian world; (2) these waters separated those who were saved from those who were drowned in them; and (3) the flood destroyed the evils of the old world and enabled Noah and his family to emerge into a new existence. In like fashion (antitype) (1) baptism is the final condition in the plan through obedience to which one is enabled to escape the condemnation of the lost. (Mark 15:15, 16), (2) Baptism designates the line of demarcation between the saved and the lost. (3) In baptism the “old man of sin” is buried, and from its watery grave one comes forth to “walk in newness of life”. (Rom 6:4)
The conclusion is inescapable that the deliverance promised is salvation from sin; and the statement is in exact harmony with one earlier made by this same Apostle when, in response to the query of the multitude on the day of Pentecost “”brethren what shall we do?” he answered “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins”. (Acts 2:37-38)
The mention of water in connection with Noah’s deliverance from the old world immediately suggested to Peter a resemblance which exists in the water of our salvation, “baptism”. It should be noted that Peter does not affirm that Noah and his family were saved “by” water, nor “in” water, nor “from “water; they were saved THROUGH water, i.e. the water was the means through which God exercised his saving power. Following, the “antitype”- “baptism” saves NOW, not of course as a Savior, but as an instrument through which God exerts his saving power. When Naaman was led to finally dip in the river Jordon to be cleansed of his leprosy, he did not attribute miraculous efficacy to it muddy waters; this power resided in God only. Yet it was not until he dipped that he was cleansed (II Kings 5:14). Similarly when one is properly and intelligently baptized today, he knows that the power of forgiveness does not resided in the water, instead, the power of forgiveness resides IN God; and that the baptism is a condition precedent to receiving salvation from God’s hand.
(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, - to guard against any misunderstanding that should arise as a result of a misinterpretation of the first clause of this verse, Peter explains that baptism does not put away “the filth of the flesh”. “Filth” (rupos) refers to that which is dirty, physically defiled. Baptism does not wash sin from the skin, and is not to be confused with a bath for the body or a ceremonial cleansing of the flesh. It is a condition precedent to the forgiveness which God alone exercises. (Mark 16:15-16; Rom. 6:3-4).
Having explained what baptism is not, Peter tells what it is: “the answer of a good conscience toward God”. Baptism thus becomes an act through which an individual seeks to manifest a good conscience. One submitting sincerely to baptism follows the promptings of a good conscience; indicates thereby that his conscience is sensitive, and that he is desirous of doing exactly what the Lord has commanded.
Baptism derives its benefits “through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” which it symbolizes. Baptism “which now saves us” does so only because Jesus was raised from the dead. (See also Romans 6)
Um Dude the New Testament is God's Word. As are the letters. The book I outlined above does testify as to church structure.
The description is ambiguous enough that a Catholic or Baptist can see what they want in it, and we see different things.
Especially when it says that elders/bishops have to a husband of but one wife and children who are faithful.... yeah right.
Your prejudice against "most churchgoers" is showing just a little. Most "churchgoers" in the world are Catholic or Orthodox and are not prohibited by Church discipline from drinking (either at home or in a bar). The largest Protestant denomination in the world is the Lutheran Church which, similarly, has no prohibition against drinking, only against drunkenness.
If that is your idea of church structure, then we are not talking about the same thing. The notion of a bishops, or an apostle for that matter is essentialli hierarchical. Maybe all social structure is.
I'll drink to that! I enjoy my glass of wine once in awhile like everyone else. It's not so much church rules and regulations that bother me, it's the PEOPLE I meet in churches. Snotty, uptight and judgemental is generally what I run up against. Not all, but enough to keep me away from organized religion. Like the Pharisees in Jesus day, they are the first ones to want to hurl the stones.
Its not my idea... its the Bible's idea and spoken word of God as to church structure.
If this is true, then how is it that the converts of Acts 10 were saved by faith before and without water baptism?
You need to read Acts 11. In verse 4, it is stated that the account of this chapter was in order. In verse 14 it is stated that Peter was going to speak words whereby Cornelius and all his house was to be saved. In verse 15 it was stated that that the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius and his company as Peter began to speak. If the words Peter spoke was to save Cornelius and the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius before he heard the words which was to save him, then the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius before he was saved. And we can see the reason for this by reading Acts 15:7-11--It was God bearing witness in an undeniable way the Gentiles were to be subjects of the Gospel just as the Jews were.
The Bible says in Acts 5:32 that only those who obey God may receive the Holy Ghost - so what did those in Acts 10 do to obey and receive the Holy Ghost and be saved?
I suggest you read Acts 8:12-19 to find how the 1st century gifts of the Holy Ghost was imparted. It was imparted by the laying on of the apostles' hands. (Acts 8:18) Since we don't have any apostles alive today, the receiving of the Holy Spirit was a first century event designed to reveal and confirm the word of God until such revelation was complete. (Hebrews 2:3-5, I Corinthians 13:8-10)
Of course we are to have the spirit of the Father, the spirit of Christ and the spirit of the Holy Spirit alive in us. But we do that by hearing and obeying the knowledge of the word of God. (II Peter 1:3-4, James 1:22) That is the way the Bible tells us to be partakers of the divine nature.
I John 1:7-10: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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