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To: Caesar Soze
Since at least a few of these points address points I made...

1. Remember that correlation = causation, even if it's an untested correlation! Did some psycho killer have boxes full of latex fetish porn? Then clearly, pornography causes otherwise harmless people to become psycho murderers. Remember, anything connected to a crime caused that crime.

As with all things sociological and psychological, how does one prove causation? This is a game that gets played any time any influence is raised as having a role in some behavior. Of course the issue really isn't one of causation but of influence, but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant.

2. Use anecdotal evidence, the more perverse, the better.

Several of the examples given point specifically to a problem with pornography. Perhaps the people in question would have developed a knitting fetish or obsession with disco dancing that would destroy their families and ruin their careers if they never encountered pornography, but somehow, I doubt it.

3. Set up demonic straw men. Even though no one is discussing things like child pornography or bestiality, which are already illegal, doesn't mean you can't! With some clever wordplay, you can make it look like the college student with a dog-eared copy of Playboy in his bathroom is, in fact, a latent pedophile.

If the claim against restricting pornography is a sweeping and unrestricted right to free speech, it's fair game to wonder how those who value free speech so deeply can reconcile those beliefs with the illegality of child pornography and bestiality. If people believe that free speech is absolute, then they should oppose the banning of all pornography, regardless of content. If the content matters, then it is a very different debate. But, hey, ranting about inaliable rights is always preferable to making a reasoned argument concerning the specific merits of the issue, right? But I do find it curious that so many pornography defenders seem unwilling to qualify their specific beliefs about what should be legal and what should be banned, if anything. Why is that?

4. Get the weirdies! Did you know that some people derive pleasure from bondage, domination, baby roleplay, same sex relationships, fursuits, Slip-N-Slides, and Catholic school girl uniforms? Did you know that these people make pornography with consenting adults? Gross! Find the weirdest fetish you can and make a big deal about it; everyone else will be so grossed out by your find that they'll quickly agree with you that all pornography is evil.

Again, the claim is that anything consenting adults consent to is OK. I want to know if that's really true or if these defenders of absolute freedom have a line or not. It's funny that your list is pretty tame. Read how nutty it gets. What about defecation? Torture? Do you have the guts to tell me whether you think it's just fine for a woman to get paid to consent to have her breasts nailed to a board? Yes or no. Qualify your answer if your really need to.

5. Get the libertarians! You just know that everyone who advocates pornography is a pot-smoking, open-borders, sexually promiscuous, pacifist, atheist, libertarian, right? When you bring that up, you're sure to shut them down. If that doesn't work, just snidely ask them about their own porn collection, and they'll slink away.

The reason why people were "getting the libertarians" is because the generic libertarian arguments (e.g., whatever two consenting adults do is their own business, etc.) were being tossed out to defend pornography. And of course it really is interesting to see people run away from those arguments when those arguments force them to defend something really shocking. Either you believe in absolutes or you don't. If you do, then be big enough to stand by them when the going gets rough. If you don't, don't use them as an argument.

6. Get the non-parents! All of this is being done for the chillrun.

Yes, heaven forbid society give a darn about children. Shouldn't they all be locked inside with the curtains drawn where they belong?

Now, for how to defend pornography:

1) Pretend all pornography consists of a single nude woman, tastefully posed, or two people having standard missionary sex to downplay how twisted a lot of pornography gets. Who would object to that but a religious fanatic? Pornography needs to sound as normal and artsy as possible for people to accept it.

2) Claim moral absolutes concerning freedom by shy away from owning up to the full implications of those absolutes so you don't look like a freak. How dare people interfere with free speech or what a person does in the privacy of their own home do. Nevermind that free speech isn't absolute and plenty of things a person does in the privacy of their own home are restricted. High minded absolutes sound principled, even if you run away from the implications of those principles that aren't so easy to defend.

3) Talk about consent to imply that all pornography is consential and coercion and desperation are never involved. It's useful to buy the pornography industry's mythology that all porn starts are well adjusted individuals who love what they do here. Make sure you ignore the seeder side of pornography that involves real pain, injury, and humiliation. See point (1) above.

4) Make fun of the opposition as religious kooks. If it works for the pro-abortion people, it can work for you because everyone knows that religion is worthless because it's just a bunch of stuffy people who want to tell you what to do. And everyone knows that religion is a personal matter that should never be used for determining public morality or laws.

5) Ignore the people destroyed by porn. They are simply anecdotal stories, perverts, or people who had other problems. Of course pornography had nothing to do with their problems, even if they spent inordinate amounts of time and money consuming porn. What really destroyed Bob Crane's career and two marriages was his insecurity over success, not the fact that he was spending tons of time watching pornography and sharing his hobby with others who were too stuffy to appreciate it. Insist that pornography is harmless.

6) Supply your own anectodal evidence. Remind them that you consume porn and you are OK. Remind them that your friends consume porn and they are OK. If a lot of people are OK after watching porn, then everyone must be.

152 posted on 04/02/2006 12:40:35 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions

You are right and the knuckle-dragging porn addicts on here are wrong.

This is identical to the smoking threads. The smokers are convinced all the research is wrong, it's a conspiracy theory by non-smokers, blah blah blah. No matter what the addiction, the addicts want to convince everyone that they are right and what they are doing is harmless to themselves and the people around them. You can't convince them otherwise, they have to experience a personal tragedy related to the addiction before they will turn their lives around. And sometimes that doesn't even work.


153 posted on 04/02/2006 7:21:25 AM PDT by tuffydoodle (Shut up voices, or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again.)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Good post


154 posted on 04/02/2006 7:26:36 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Question_Assumptions

Excellent rebuttal.

And just remember, the pro-porn crowd are on the same team as the ACLU and Larry Flynt, their hero!


168 posted on 04/02/2006 8:35:25 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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