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Rejecting Modern Materialism: The Rise of the Crunchy-Conservatives
Catholic Exchange ^
| March 31, 2006
| Pete Vere JCL
Posted on 03/31/2006 7:39:09 AM PST by NYer
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You're right: He didn't mention parties. That was my error.
"And once you've hung around at Free Republic long enough, you'll see lots of soi-disant "conservatives" who are contemptuously down on marriage and family, whose response to porn is "where can I get me some 'a that?" and who think the most important Trinity is Me, Myself, and I."
Right again. I should drink more coffee before I hit the "Post" button... And, yes, I've been here since 2000, and I've seen all kinds.
41
posted on
03/31/2006 11:41:56 AM PST
by
redhead
(www.opinions3.com and http://halfbakedsourdough.blogspot.com, if you would like to read more...)
To: NYer
This last point has escaped Drehers critics in my opinion. Their most common complaint is that Dreher never gets around to presenting a plan for moving the crunchy con ideology forward. He does not have to present some grand plan; rather it is the little things that move crunchy conservatism forward. As Dreher repeatedly points out in his book, big things happen when enough people look after the little things. Does this mean that Dreher believes his philosophy can be implemented through persuasion and inspiring personal examples, rather than being imposed by the state?
It would be remarkably refreshing if that was so, and on that basis alone I would wish him luck, despite whatever personal quibbles I have with his philosophy.
Could someone who has read his books fill me in on his position concerning the role of the state?
42
posted on
03/31/2006 11:45:47 AM PST
by
timm22
To: Colonel Batguano
You are absolutely correct; too many in our movement have a Walter Williams-like reglious belief in unrestrained capitalism, that the market is ALWAYS right, and that the "law" of supply and demand was handed down along with the 10 Commandments! I think you may be exaggerating a bit. The only people who would come close to that description are anarcho-capitalists, who make up only a small portion of libertarians. Among conservatives in general, they make up a tiny fraction. I'm sure we could name a few on this site, but that would probably be because their rarity makes them stick out in our minds.
Most conservatives/libertarians believe in SOME role for the state and some activities that should remain outside of the market; the building of roads, national defense, the establishment of courts of law, legilative bodies, etc. Furthermore, most recognize the need for certain restraints on market activities, like prohibiting fraud or imposing fines or restrictions on pollution output. And I think most can point to certain market outcomes we don't like. I, for instance, find the branding phenomenon in clothing to be repulsive.
There are very, very few on our side who believe in an unrestrained, infallible market. There ARE quite a few (thankfully) who recognize that correcting the faults of the market is quite often worse than the problems being addressed. Some of us defend the market not for what it makes, but for what is required to make it work- individual rights.
43
posted on
03/31/2006 12:01:57 PM PST
by
timm22
To: NYer
Good discussion. I don't know if "crunchy conservatism" is really going to amount to much as a movement. It's more that there are tendencies running through society as a whole, as a generation settles down to raise kids, and these tendencies are going to be felt in conservatism as they are in other aspects of American life.
Some things, like Birkenstocks and organic foods are going to remain distinctly minority tastes, but other things -- a turn against mini-mansions and SUVs and towards home-schooling and localism -- may become more prevalent without people really propgandizing much for them. The people who oppose them today may find themselves part of the trend without really being aware that they've changed their behavior.
Young people who grew up in affluence and conspicuous consumption turn against it and look for greater simplicity and authenticity (and perhaps in turn, their kids get fed up with their crunchy parents and turn back to ambition and acquisitiveness).
"Throne and altar" conservatism? Maybe a little bit, but distributism and localism haven't always gone hand in hand with monarchy or orthodoxy. The localists' wish for independence and a quiet life can come into conflict with the desire of kings and bishops for greater control. There's a "low church" or Quaker or pietist simplicity involved that doesn't always sit well with highly developed ideologies.
44
posted on
03/31/2006 12:07:41 PM PST
by
x
To: NYer
I guess I'm at least a semi-meta-pseudo-quasi-crunchy-con.
I make my own cider, sausage, pickles and sauerkraut. I collect guns and have serious doubts about the benefits of both big government and big business.
45
posted on
03/31/2006 12:10:06 PM PST
by
Panzerlied
("We shall never surrender!")
To: longtermmemmory
One thing Rod Dreher sho' nuff ain't is a liberal Democrat. He IS Catholic, though.
46
posted on
03/31/2006 12:26:17 PM PST
by
Mrs. Don-o
(With a capital "C")
To: x
Young people who grew up in affluence and conspicuous consumption turn against it and look for greater simplicity and authenticity There are even those of us from the BB generation who have given it all up in search of respite from the din of society.
47
posted on
03/31/2006 12:26:43 PM PST
by
NYer
(Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
To: All
I am not debating this statement:
Kids today marinate in a sexually aggressive popular culture that teaches them that life is supposed to be an erotic free-for-all.
I will say that many conservatives do not live in that world so they are totally unaware of the coming changes regarding this. This may or may not be good news but the coming GenX contributions to this pop culture often reflect the devastation and hopelessness brought about by the last few decades of pop culture garbage. What I am talking about is still very cutting edge but it will be more evident very soon. GenX got sold a bill of goods by the TV and they know it. Small early examples of what I am talking about can be seen in Fight Club and South Park.
48
posted on
03/31/2006 12:32:35 PM PST
by
The Toll
To: TR Jeffersonian
49
posted on
03/31/2006 12:54:13 PM PST
by
kalee
To: The Toll
devastation and hopelessness and southpark?
he sounds like the taliban trying to bring in religious rule.
50
posted on
03/31/2006 1:16:11 PM PST
by
postaldave
(McCain, you traitorous bastard)
To: postaldave
Ah, it took 50 posts before someone used the Taliban Corollary to Godwin's Law.
51
posted on
03/31/2006 2:40:41 PM PST
by
Pyro7480
(Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
To: redhead
S"orry, but it's the Democrats I see driving around in Hummers, living in the 12-room houses in the high-end neigborhoods, dressed in designers duds and working in middle and upper management."
LOL! For the record: I drive a pickup, live in a three bedroom home, buy my clothes at Target and JC Penney, I utterly detest television, and I do garden when I find time. We also live well below our means.
I don't see this gentleman as being all that misinformed. I know quite a few so-called political "liberals" who are actually very "conservative" in their personal lifestyles and habits.
52
posted on
03/31/2006 4:33:43 PM PST
by
RKBA Democrat
(Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
To: gobucks; NYer
This was a great find. And he's a convert to Eastern Catholicism to boot.
53
posted on
03/31/2006 4:35:35 PM PST
by
RKBA Democrat
(Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
To: Pyro7480
54
posted on
03/31/2006 7:10:59 PM PST
by
Vor Lady
(Mal, "Remember, we just want to scare him." Jayne, "Pain is scary!")
To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
55
posted on
03/31/2006 8:05:39 PM PST
by
Coleus
(RU-486 Kills babies and their mothers, Bush can stop this as Clinton started through executive order)
To: qam1; NYer; Northern Yankee; kstewskis
Drehers solution to this problem is simple: we must return our focus to family, our community and church. We must renounce the selfishness of lust, avarice and covetousness, and we must one again seek to be good stewards of creation over which God has given us dominion. Finally, we must pay attention to the needs of the soul and not just those of the flesh. Politics and economics will not save us, Dreher concludes. I agree with Dreher and concur with Russell Kirk, or as Ronald Reagan called him, the prophet of American conservatism that the institution most essential to conserve is the family. In this day and age when most women have taken to heart one of feminism's cherished rules that it is unfair for a women to stay home and raise her children, it totally thrills me that there is a quiet revolution of conservative women out there, who have decided to stay-at-home mom, and homeschool their children. More power to them!
To: Victoria Delsoul; Northern Yankee; NYer; qam1
In this day and age when most women have taken to heart one of feminism's cherished rules that it is unfair for a women to stay home and raise her children, it totally thrills me that there is a quiet revolution of conservative women out there, who have decided to stay-at-home mom, and homeschool their children. More power to them! Kate O'Beirne is one of them!
57
posted on
03/31/2006 8:19:09 PM PST
by
kstewskis
("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
To: VoiceOfBruck
Hey Bruck -- we have a new "title". ;)
58
posted on
03/31/2006 8:22:44 PM PST
by
Zechariah_8_13
(Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.)
To: kstewskis
Kate O'Beirne is a very smart woman. I like her a lot.
To: Mrs. Don-o
"One thing Rod Dreher sho' nuff ain't is a liberal Democrat. He IS Catholic, though."
Yep and the crunchy stuff all goes back to church teachings on subsidiarity and how it relates to family and community.
60
posted on
03/31/2006 8:35:51 PM PST
by
Domestic Church
(AMDG...God Bless Occam and his razor...crunch, crunch, crunch)
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