Winkler delivers message of love and forgiveness(Father of Slain Preacher)

Minister Dan Winkler’s message to the congregation of the Huntingdon Church of Christ Sunday morning centered around such words as love, appreciation, forgiveness and kindness as he told how he and his family had coped with the tragic turn of events over the last few days.

This was the first Sunday service after the minister’s son, Brian Matthew Winkler, was slain in his parsonage home in Selmer, on March 21 and his wife, Mary Winkler, charged with first degree murder in the case. Matthew Winkler, the middle son of Dan and Diane Winkler, was minister of Fourth Street Church of Christ there.

Dan and Diane Winkler were vacationing in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg when news reached them of their son’s death.

The Winklers were able to obtain temporary custody of Matthew and Mary Winkler’s three young daughters through court proceedings Friday in Orange Beach, Alabama.

“His message touched all of us,” said Jennifer Butler, a member of the congregation. “It helped ease some of the pain that we’ve been feeling and showed us his great strength of faith.”

During the service, the minister spoke of his love for God, the church, the local congregation, fellow church members, his family and the town of Huntingdon as he further told of his appreciation for law enforcement officials and the news media for their assistance in helping locate those “three precious babies.”

“I can’t tell you want it meant to be met by friends we’ve known for 20 years,” said Winkler of their return home from vacation and Alabama.

This is the second close Winkler family member who has died over the last few months. Wendell Winkler, the father of Dan Winkler, died Oct. 23 of last year after a long battle with cancer. He served as a former head of the Bible Department at Faulkner University in Montgomery, Ala.

“I’m thankful for the Huntingdon Church of Christ and the town of Huntingdon” he said. “What wonderful support that Huntingdon will give these three babies.”

He mentioned the family’s closeness to the local congregation. “We love no one more than we love you,” he said.

Calls have come from all over the world and people have traveled hundreds of miles just to be with the family for 30 minutes to embrace them and weep with them, he told the congregation during the service that was broadcasted over WVHR-FM radio station in Huntingdon.

On their return trip home with the three granddaughters, he said someone recognized them during one of their stops and paid for their meals.

“We were 13 hours on the road with those three babies who never complained,” he said.

The minister said there was much kindness shown them by the Selmer authorities, TBI, ADI and FBI as they worked with the case.

He expressed his thankfulness for the America media and the role they played in helping with the case.

“Sometimes they get a black eye,” he said. “But there’s something to be said about them. The media has been involved in our lives.”

There have been offers for him to appear on several morning shows and news networks.

The two questions most often asked, he said, are “Is there a spokesman for the family?” and “Is there a fund because the nation is wanting to help?” He recognized if it hadn’t been for the Amber Alert that was circulated through the media that “we might not be blessed with these precious babies today.”

He expressed thankfulness for family members, including his mother, brothers, mother-in-law, sister-in-law, his oldest and youngest sons and grandchildren.

“I look forward to being a daddy again,” he said as he mentioned raising his grandchildren and becoming involved in school activities.

He emphasized that he was thankful for his son who is no longer with the family.

“I know the kind of husband and father he was and what a man he truly was,” said the minister.

Before the family left Alabama, he said each family member visited with Mary Winkler, embraced her and reaffirmed their love for her with a willingness to forgive.

I'm assuming that when you said "gone off her meds" you meant she had "stopped taking" her prescribed meds? If so, I'm confused by your statement. If someone had stopped taking their prescribed medications, then how would "modern chemistry" have factored into the equation?

I did imply that she had stopped taking the medication by the way I phrased that and don't know that that is the case. It does reflect what my friend said people were talking about in that town.

I also know, however, that agressive medication for something like bi-polar disorder (what used to be called manic depressive, right?) can make the condition worse if the patient stops taking the medication. At least that was the thinking many years ago when I drove an ambulance for a living in the NY area.

There are also cases where someone who is bi-polar starts taking sleeping pills for related problems. I know personally of a case where someone stopped taking Ambien and went into a psychotic episode within days, taking the couples young children and just disappearing for a few weeks of wandering around. She's now institutionalized and that was a case of stopping the medication triggering a reaction.

But, again, I have absolutely no direct knowledge about this case, just what my friend heard, so it's not anything to base any conclusions on. It might be enough only to get people to NOT draw premature conclusions.

Let me first preface my comments by saying I am not talking about this Alabama lady. From all appearances to me, this woman belongs in prison for a very long time for cold-blooded murder, even if he was abusing the kids. I don't see anything in her case that points to psychotic behavior -- no previous history or anecdotal reports or defense attorney comments. Instead, my comments below are about people in general, not her.

You said, "I also know, however, that agressive medication for something like bi-polar disorder (what used to be called manic depressive, right?) can make the condition worse if the patient stops taking the medication. At least that was the thinking many years ago when I drove an ambulance for a living in the NY area.

It's not that "aggressive medication makes the condition worse." That's a common misconception. Their condition gets "worse" because they stop taking their medication in the first place.

More specifically about bipolar disorder: As a general rule medications don't make a bipolar condition "worse." The bipolar symptoms only get worse if the person stops taking their medication. In fact, medications such as lithium, SSRIs & SSRI-related antidepressants are often the only thing that allows a person with serious bipolar illness to live a relatively normal life. Find any person with bipolar disease who has been properly diagnosed and has been stabilized on psych medicine(s) to keep their disease at bay -- they'll tell you their life was a living hell before finding the right combination of medications.

I've often wondered where this "Psych meds make it worse" line of thinking comes from. I don't know, but I suspect several things:

First, it may originate from the fact that there are many, many people out there walking around with undiagnosed mental illness -- people that you and I see everyday. Naturally, since they don't even know (or care) they have a mental illness, they aren't taking medications for it. And since they're "undiagnosed," their circle of friends or acquaintances (you and I ) don't notice their abnormal behavior that much because there's not a "name" to label it with. We just think of them in terms of being "irresponsible," "crazy as hell," or for the men, "a full-blown psycho-b*tch." (I've never seen an equivalent term for males!). When they finally get a diagnosis and get stabilized with medications, unless it's someone we know well, we don't even notice.

.... [Fast forward in time a little bit. -------->] ..... A few weeks/months later, they stop taking that medicine and subsequently get sick. If it's bad enough & they get suicidal or lose touch with reality, we hear about it (usually after-the-fact). So then this person's story -- the story that gets passed around among 2nd & 3rd degree acquaintances -- gets twisted and the part about him always being "crazy as hell" gets left out. The story that does get passed along goes something like, "Yeah, he was fine until he got on those psych meds. Then he ended up in the hospital!" Based on an incomplete history, people start assuming the medications made his condition worse.

The 2nd suspicion I have involves the propensity for people with mental illness to develop a "tolerance" of sorts to their psych meds. For no apparent reason, a medication can stop being effective on certain people and they develop symptoms of mental illness again, even though they're still taking that same medication that worked last month. And as the mental illness progresses, the behavioral symptoms can worsen. (This happens with schizophrenia. A lot. Schizophrenics often become "treatment resistant.") Everyone around this person whose medicine stopped working just assumes "the psych meds did it" when in fact, the person became tolerant to that particular medication.

One other 3rd possibility: a doctor has no way of knowing what medication will work on any particular patient. Take someone with schizophrenia, for instance. That person may have to take several different antipsychotics (Risperdal, Zyprexa, Seroquel, Geodon, etc.) before finding one that controls the symptoms. Meanwhile, the patient is becoming more and more sick. Some people just assume "it's the psych meds" that making them sick. This kind of medication management can be difficult, to say the least. It usually results in a hospital stay to get the patient stabilized on another medication that's more effective in symptom management.

On another note, you said:

There are also cases where someone who is bi-polar starts taking sleeping pills for related problems. I know personally of a case where someone stopped taking Ambien and went into a psychotic episode within days, taking the couples young children and just disappearing for a few weeks of wandering around. She's now institutionalized and that was a case of stopping the medication triggering a reaction.

Abrupt discontinuation from sedative-hypnotics (Ambien/zolpidem) or anti-anxiety medications (benzodiazepines such as Xanax) is known to cause problems. That's another reason why people shouldn't just stop taking their medications without doctor supervision. In some cases the withdrawal syndrome for these types of medications can be severe, especially if the medication has been taken in high doses regularly for a long time. For one, research has shown that many people who suddenly stop taking a sedative-hypnotic may experience a grand mal seizure. In cases of severe withdrawal, a person can develop problems with reality testing (e.g., hallucinations, illusions, or delirium). That's just one more reason why people who take psychiatric medications should take them responsibly. It's often the people who don't take them responsibly that give medications the bad reputation.

I didn't mean to say so much and ramble on and on. I think it's because I just spent all day at a hospital watching some very sick people who were there because they needed some psych meds.

And of course, it goes without saying that everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. Your mileage may vary. :-)

I didn't mean to say so much and ramble on and on. I think it's because I just spent all day at a hospital watching some very sick people who were there because they needed some psych meds.

No, you are exactly right and I agree with everything you said. I was very casual and tossed off a post on a serious subject without fully explaining myself. I do feel that, once on the correct meds, there will be a larger reaction during the withdrawel for such a patient than might be the case (notice, "might") if they stop their meds. That is the total extent of the conventional wisdom from my time on an ambulance way back when (1970 to around 1976 in the NY City area). It's not that the meds make the condition worse, it's that the withdrawel from the meds can exagerate the symptoms that might (notice, "might") have not been so severe had they not taken the meds in the first place. Of course, that assumes that they could have gone on without the meds, which is a big (and probably wrong) assumption. As I read what you wrote on the subject I think you're saying the same thing and I think you're saying it much better than I have.

And the comments about the sedative/hypnotics are exactly in line with (but much better stated) than what I have understood to be the case.

I got out of the business all those years ago because I could no longer deal with the emotional price I had to pay. I was never bothered by an emergency, no matter how traumatic (except crispy critters) because I had a job to do and was able to turn off all emotional reaction. But on a professional ambulance you are mostly doing "routine transports" from hospital to hospital, nursing home to doctor or some type of treatment or therapy. Under those circumstances you have to allow some sort of emotional connection to the person you are transporting. What's worst was the regular appointments, "Bob on Thursday morning" or "Martha's weekly accupuncture treatment for MS." You get to know the people. You (I) can't avoid developing bonds and caring. You either watch them go on with the treatment not making any improvement or, the worst thing, showing up one morning and being told "oh, we're sorry, we forgot to call you and cancel..."

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