That said, Hillary Clinton couldn't beat hubcap in a presidential election. As long as the GOP puts up someone with a pulse, she's toast.
I will never understand why anyone thinks she can actually win a national election?
I don't think we can afford to underestimate her. Just because we don't like nor trust her doesn't mean independent and swing voters don't. In a bad year for the GOP, and if Iraq is still making negative headlines in 08 and you know it will be with our co-opted media, then Hillary has a real shot despite what that fill in host on Limbaugh said today. Sure she won't win Southern states, but she doesn't need to. She merely needs to win 3 marginal states Bush barely won in 04 and she's in, and those would be Ohio, Iowa and New Mexico. And with the terrible shape the GOP is in in Ohio thanks to that corrupt a-hole Bob Taft, Hillary could very well pull off a win there esp. if she appeals to memories of the "great Clinton economy" of the 90s as Ohio continues to suffer under economic malaise.
Let's not fall into the trap of underestimating Hillary. She is beatable but so are we. We need a strong candidate who can draw independent and Democratic votes. Keep in mind Guiliani's social issues positions were what he thought he needed to hold to in order to govern a liberal city like New York City. I have no doubt he'd moderate those views to govern a much more conservative nation as a whole.
And even if not, are you really ready to go back to the corrupt Clinton cabal? I'd rather have Rudy as president cutting taxes, fighting the war on terror and cutting pork spending even if on social issues he's not much different than Hillary. And I'd much rather have him maintaining the honor and dignity of the White House than have that Clinton crowd back in there sullying the presidency. Think about it. Do you REALLY want to help bring about the exhoneration of the "Clinton legacy" a Hillary presidency would constitute? Do you really want to bring back the Scandal of the Month Club again, the selling of the Lincoln Bedroom and the selling of US weapons technology to China for campaign cash one more time? And do you really want to see Bill Clinton's national profile suddenly skyrocket into the renewed prominence that would come from being the country's first First Husband??? Do you now see there would be VAST difference between having a Guiliani as president as versus a Clinton?? Suddenly Rudy doesn't look so bad does he??
Don't count on it.
He is downright combatitive when it comes to his social views, he has gay friends, he is a rabid gun grabber (further to the left on that issue) then most of the democrats in the senate are.
He is also unique in that he may be the only candiate who Bill Clinton can envy as a womanizer.
His affairs and past marrages are common knowledge (he was very open about it, to the point of bring several mistresses to dinner at various restaurants).
But underestimating HIllary is to easy, contrarie to popular belief, she does not appeal to moderates, centerists or independents, or any swing voters, if anything, she repels them, she seems to have more appeal to the crowd that thinks she is invincible.
To put it in perspective, the only boards where she gets ripped on MORE then free republic are the daily kos and D.U. If they hate her, while it doesn't mean they won't vote for her, it does mean her appeal is strictly "anybody but a republican", she has nothing more then that.
As for swing state, she could take New Mexico, but she won't take Ohio or Iowa (in fact, she may not get iowa in the primaries).
There is one really weird thing, last year several of my friends went to a fundraiser where she was speaking (they're liberal and they were representing the teachers union), she did take a few questions, and made absolutly no sense, she took a shot at Kerry which puzzeled everyone, about him spending to much time with Ohio which was never in play and not enough trying to win other swing states (I do not know what she meant), and she took a few shots at Iowa.
2 of my friends who were guys thought she was implying that the Iowa is to beholden to special interests or extremists, 2 of my friends who were girls there thought she was calling the whole state sexist.
I don't know what her campaign strategy will be, but if her remarks about Iowa are on tape, and ever get out, that state will loathe her.
Keep in mind, that Bill Clinton, who is more popular then she ever was, never got 50% of the vote, and him and Carville to this day thank Ross Perot for their victories.
If HIllary gets more then 45% of the vote without a 3rd party candidate, I'd be stunned.
I think she is going to lose an additional 5 blue states single handedly....especially if she doesn't start firing some of the incompetant staffers she has now.