Coast-to-coast 'movement' rages on

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | March 28, 2006 | Guy Taylor

[razorbak]

The Roman Catholic Church, dozens of grass-roots coalitions and Spanish-language radio disc jockeys have helped fuel protests nationwide against congressional efforts to tackle illegal immigration....

The Catholic Church has played a key role in opposing legislation to restrict immigration and rallying protesters....

"As we've been able to reach more and more people, they're waking up to the ills of the proposals made to date and seeing the need to be vocal about the kinds of reforms that would be more acceptable," said Mark D. Franken, executive director of migration and refugee services for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops....

The bishops conference in May began "Justice for Immigrants," a campaign focused on activating a network of grass-roots movements against punitive immigration-reform legislation....

Mr. Franken said all the nation's 197 Catholic dioceses are in some way backing the campaign, with more than 70 being particularly active. Disseminating pamphlets and networking, community-level groups tied to the campaign are operating "in churches and everywhere they can gain access," he said.

[sageb1]

Stop drinking the kool aid.

[TradicalRC]

I had sarcasm after my post but it didn't write, sorry.

[Aquinasfan]

The US bishops do not speak "for the Church" as a whole.

Yup. These national bishops conferences seem to do more harm than good.

[BlackElk]

Actually, the Vatican City is a de jure sovereign state. Ronaldus Maximus recognized this when he established full scale diplomatic relations with the Vatican including an exchange of full scale ambassadors. Vatican City is where the Church is now headquartered. The sovereign state of Vatican City is the successor to the sovereign state of the Papal States which began when the Roman emperors were effectively succeeded by the popes in the central portion of Italy. All but Vatican City was stolen from the Vatican by a revolution by Garibaldi, Mezzini and Cavour in the mid-19th century.

The Vatican City had close relationship with the Confederate States of America through the friendship of Pope Pius IX and the Confederacy's President Jefferson Davis who had received his primary school education in a Dominican Order Catholic School in Kentucky. When, after the end of the late unpleasantness, President Davis was incarcerated by the conquerers, Pius IX sent him a crown of thorns fashioned by the pope's own hand as a gesture of friendship.

[BlackElk]

GOP POET: Welcome to Free Republic.

1. Politics is not the only problem on the coasts.

2. God put His Hand under the middle of the country and lifted it up. The fruits, nuts and vegetables rolled down to the coasts while normal Americans stayed put. (Midwesterners know what I am talking about).

3. Of course there were normal folks on the coasts too. Some of us then moved to flyover country to be with our fellow normal Americans.

4. Your life circumstances may make it difficult to flee the coast. Salvation is worth it. Salvation is not by residence alone but, even if you remain a non-Catholic Christian, there are plently of great folks here who fit that description.

5. If, as Catholics would hope, you yearn to return to Catholicism but only the real kind (which has to to with Faith, Mass, Sacraments, Dogma, the Teaching Magisterium and other treasures) which has no more to do with the immigration issue tthan it has to do with leftist political ideology, consider moving to the vicinity of Rockford, Illinois, where the bishop is the militantly Catholic Bishop Thomas Doran, where each priest is allowed but not required to say the Tridentine Mass of our ancestors and of our more fortunate contemporaries, where St. Mary's Oratory is ALL Tridentine Catholic in line with the ministry of The Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, which provides its pastor, and the Tridentine Mass is said every Sunday at the very conservative St. Patrick's Church in Rockford as well.

6. If Jesus Christ wanted you to be a Roman Catholic, would you say no to Him because you disagree with immigration????? The Catholic Church, whatever its critics may imagine, is a religious institution established by Jesus Christ and guaranteed by Him to the very end of te world. He did not establish His Church on Simon bar Jonah renamed by Him as Peter so that people seeking a better life could be confined to the hellholes where they happen to have been born.

7. One Biblical citation (from the ultimate authority and your Savior and mine): "Love your neighbor as yourself." Not your fellow citizen but your neighbor and nothing restricts that to any borders. If, according to your means, you send your personal contribution to those caring for AIDS-stricken children in Mozambique, you are loving your neighbor as He commanded. If, according to your means, you give to US organizations resisting abortion, you are loving yur neighbor as He cammanded.

8. Cardinal Mahoney is an absolutely horrible excuse for a Catholic much less for a diocesan archbishop, much less for a prince of the Church---not because of the immigration issue but because of his lifetime of negative achievement in respect to doctrine and the practice of the Faith.

[onyx]

I'm one more!

BTTT and thank you for the ping!

[onyx]

Mahony is costing me dearly.

[BlackElk]

kstewskis: In defense of Sinkspur (a rare self-indulgence, you should pardon the expression), B-XVI most certainly would defend the immigration. John Paul II specifically defended such immigrations. The pope is the legislator of the Catechism. John Paul II was the individual pope who actually promulgated the catechism. That part of the Catechism which is being cited against immigration is written to make ACCEPTANCE of the immigrant by his/her new country the trigger that establishes the immigrant's (no mention of legal or "illegal") obligations to his/her new country. It is quite logical to note that the immigrant is not, by the Catechism at least, required to leave the recipient country in order to obey its laws.

God's law is infinitely more important than mere government law. The two often coincide but NOT always. Where they do not coincide, go with God's Law.

[BlackElk]

A law that interferes with the ability of ministers (or priests or rabbis or presbyters or whatever) to actually minister flatly violates the First Amendment Right to Worship AND (less clearly but consistent with standard misinterpretation by SCOTUS) the First Amendment prohibition of Congressional action respecting "an establishment of religion" would be no law whatever Congress might have presumed if Congress (at least the Senate Judiciary Committee) had forgotten the oath taken by each member to uphold the US constitution.

Let us take the arguments on their merits. I do not always agree with Sinkspur on matters Catholic but the mere fact that Sinkspur advances an argument does not automatically make the argument wrong. He is often right on matters such as this. Sometimes he does not make the argument in the terms that others might employ. We diminish ourselves if we let personal feelings get in the way of truth.

Spiro Agnew pled guilty to income tax evasion and (I believe) to taking bag money from Maryland contractors when he was governor there. Nevertheless, his press and media critics and other political liberals WERE "nattering nabobs of negativism." His imperfections were not relevant to his political campaigns. So and so eats pomegranates and therefore should be denied a hunting license??????

Woman/Man::Fish/Bicycle (Feminazis wrong again!). None of us are feminazis but that argument on its own merits is irrational and wrong.

[BlackElk]

I want you on my side in any war.

[BlackElk]

There you go revealing TdTGC's trade secrets!

[PalestrinaGal0317]

Good heavens!

I tend to lurk more than post, but (like BlackElk) I very, very rarely (if ever) agree with you, much less Cardinal Mahoney. Yet here I find that I am in complete agreement with both!

I agree with you 100% on this. No minister or priest should be required to (or should even if they are required to) determine whether a person is "legal" or not before ministering to them. If we get started on that, the seal of the confessional will be next and priests will be required (and hopefully will die rather than do so) to report to the police if a criminal confesses to them.

I can see it now: someone calls the rectory requesting Viaticum for his mother and is told that he will have to produce her green card before it will be given.

[sinkspur]

I can see it now: someone calls the rectory requesting Viaticum for his mother and is told that he will have to produce her green card before it will be given.

That is exactly what HR 4337 would require, in exactly that circumstance.

[TradicalRC]

Well, back to the old grindstone...

He did not establish His Church on Simon bar Jonah renamed by Him as Peter so that people seeking a better life could be confined to the hellholes where they happen to have been born.

Nor did Christ come into the world to create an egalitarian Utopia or to make it safe for democracy or to get civil rights legislation passed or to create open borders.

[TradicalRC]

It is quite logical to note that the immigrant is not, by the Catechism at least, required to leave the recipient country in order to obey its laws.

Not logical in the least seeing that they are DISOBEYING the law by not going through the proper channels. Christ never advocated breaking laws, nor should anyone who calls himself a Christian.

[franky]

Satan really raises its head with a thread like this. All the "has beens" get their time to be vindictive to the Church.

Little do they know that many in the United States, today, would still be poor and European if it were not for the Catholic Church.

My great grandfather got to the U S from Ireland during the potato famine because of the Church. He had no money and no contacts in the U S, only his local priest in Ireland.

I would, as many in the United States might not exist or at least not been an American Catholic.

I pray for all you misguided souls.

[samcgwire]

Damn Communist CINOs.

They will reap the whirlwind as America reaps.

[kstewskis]

Mahony is costing me dearly.

Me too.

What, we lasted...two days???

/LOL

[kstewskis]

God's law is infinitely more important than mere government law. The two often coincide but NOT always. Where they do not coincide, go with God's Law.

I am in complete agreement. But what I don't understand here, is the part in the Catechism (#2241) that these bishops contradict what is said in this paragraph..

This is not an issue of immigration (I'm all for it), it's the illegal immigration as a whole, and what Church teachings say upon respecting the indivitual laws of the land. Not what I think they should say.

And let me say this, I will agree with what Sink brought up with the House bill, that it would cross the line of inhibiting religious freedom should a priest get jail time for helping someone undocumented.

But that wasn't my original beef.

My beef is with Mahony pushing the envelop too far, once again.

How is this in concordance with what is said in the Catechism?

It sounds like someone wants things both ways.

[stands2reason]

Ted Kennedys stance on abortion comes directly from Rome.

You are a nut.