Posted on 03/28/2006 2:06:57 PM PST by StoneColdGOP
QUISLING: a synonym for traitor, someone who collaborates with the invaders of his country.
You bet.
Drop dead...and
Go worship you Jorge...
Sell outs...
Travis, Do you know where the upside down flag pic was taken?
Honestly, I don't see why we should care. It's their business who they elect, and Mexico is a country of very little strategic importance.
So if we get stubborn, a real communist will be in power in Mexico. We get something like 60% of our oil from Mexico and Venenzuela (where a communist also just got elected).
Their oil doesn't do them any good unless they sell it.
What do you expect them to do, drink it?
By alienating hispanics here in this country
A majority of US citizens of Hispanic origin oppose illegal immigration.
Furthermore, a majority of Hispanics have voted for Dems in every major election for the last 40 years. Don't you think it would be a political benefit to limit their population growth by slowing down the rate of Hispanic immigration?
It seems like a much safer strategy then hoping against hope that we'll somehow reverse a consistent pattern that's held up for 40 years.
That's exactly why legalizing these people is the only answer. I don't know where you've been, but after the Reagan administration amnesty and solomn promose to get tough on the border, nothing happened.
This time they're not even promising to get tough. Sure, they're going to write new laws, but they wrote laws in the 80's too. Look what good it did? They don't even need new laws now, just enforce the old ones, but there's no serious talk of doing it.
So you have exactly my point. We're not going to reverse the 40 years of flow of mexicans across the border, so the only logical thing to do is welcome them to America, and lead them to the English class. That will clear up all the sneaking across the border, so anyone who does so is a genuine bad guy and will be easier to catch. Thus we increase security.
And we'll know who these people are, and where they're working. Right now there is no accountability at all. All these folks have "papers", but they're bogus papers, worth zero for increasing security.
If we welcome them to this country to be Americans, they won't have to hide from the Border Patrol in the spanish barrios, never learning our language and culture.
It's not a perfect solution. I'd rather they went home. But I'm realistic that we're not going to reverse this 40 year migration. The only option is to manage it as best we can.
That's because the Reagan amnesty was NOT accompanied by any tough legislation.
This time they're not even promising to get tough. Sure, they're going to write new laws, but they wrote laws in the 80's too.
No, they didn't. The laws written in the 1980's had no teeth. They didn't give sufficient resources to Law enforcement, and the penalties for hiring illegals were a joke. There were no requirements for verifying employment authorization documents. In short, there was NO good legislation proposed.
In contrast, HR 4437 will do all those things, and more. HR 4437 is truely something different and has not been tried before.
When what he's been trying doesn't work, and we've already tried amnesty, assimlation, and all the things you suggest, a rational person tries something different.
They don't even need new laws now, just enforce the old ones, but there's no serious talk of doing it.
Yes, a new law is needed, because the existing laws do not give law enforcment the resources it needs, nor do they give sufficient penalties for violating the law.
So you have exactly my point. We're not going to reverse the 40 years of flow of mexicans across the border,
Of course you can. Kick them out of their jobs, and they'll have no reason to stay.
We've done the same thing before on a smaller scale. Look up Operation Wetback.
so the only logical thing to do is welcome them to America, and lead them to the English class.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! You've got to be kidding. With our schools dominated by dogmatic multiculturalists who think America is evil? Yeah, that's going to happen.
That will clear up all the sneaking across the border, so anyone who does so is a genuine bad guy and will be easier to catch. Thus we increase security.
Sanctions with teeth against employing illegals will have the same effect.
And we'll know who these people are, and where they're working. Right now there is no accountability at all. All these folks have "papers", but they're bogus papers, worth zero for increasing security.
And you think the ones who are a risk to security will somehow come forward and tell you who they are?
If we welcome them to this country to be Americans, they won't have to hide from the Border Patrol in the spanish barrios, never learning our language and culture.
They'll just join Mecha, like all the leading Hispanic politicians in California did.
It's not a perfect solution.
It's no solution.
I'd rather they went home. But I'm realistic that we're not going to reverse this 40 year migration.
You're being most unrealistic about prospects for assimilation. I can tell you've spent very little time around the Hispanic Ghetto.
On the other hand, I can see you've given almost no thought to the House Bill that I alluded to earlier, for which there is a very real possibility of passage.
Am I missing something or does this issue cross political lines? How did a bill pass in the Judiciary Committee? Oh yeah, it passed because some Republicans voted the same as Democrats in favor of the bill. Neither political party wants to anger the "Latino" vote because its an election year, but the funny thing is that I have communicated with many Latinos that are native-born, as well as LEGAL immigrants, and they are against ILLEGAL immigration as anyone else. So whose vote are the politicians afraid of losing ... the illegal immigrants that can't vote?
They're afraid of the latinos who can vote.
Yes, legal latinos don't want illegal immigration. But on the other hand they don't pay much attention to politics and are easily led as a "group". It's no coincidence that the Republican led prop 184 in Ca. resulted in significant losses for Republicans in the last 15 years simply because a republican governor supported it. It wasn't even passed by a Republican legislature, and the Gov. got just one vote on the matter just like everyone else. Nevertheless the Reps got the blame, and it will take another two generations to get that vote back.
This time we face the same situation in AZ, Texas, and in a bunch of other marginal purple states where a few thousand hispanic votes could give us Hillary! for Pres.
Bottom line, Bush will likely make his first veto a bill that has all teeth and no legal status. This was his No 1 issue when he got elected up till 9/11. Now he's back at it, and he's not letting go.
Similarly, the Senate will not pass an all teeth, no legalization bill. So give up on that.
And just like the 1980's, there's no way any teeth only laws will be enforced. There are innumerable ways to enforce border laws already on the books, and they're not being used, and no future laws will be used.
The only viable alternative is assimilation. And not even hard-core Americans are talking that talk, and that's a serious mistake. We don't need to fight illegals and their advocates on this issue. We need to fight liberals so we can get English into schools. Progress has been made on that front, but a little help on it would be appreciated.
Trying to close the border and send illegals back is a wasted effort.
Just watch and see.
Are you saying that the treaty granted American citizenship to the Mexicans who got absorbed into the United States after the war? If so, those people became Americans. What does that have to do with illegal aliens today who are waving Mexican flags and acting as if they have an automatic right to territory located in the southwest, particularly those who are probably mostly of European origin, and whose ancestors weren't indigenous to Mexico in the fist place? They aren't Americans, and they have no territorial rights to land Mexico lost or sold.
The European origin comment is meant to expose the hypocrisy of illegal aliens of European extraction trying to claim that parts of the southwest are their "homeland," as if they have some indigenous right to the territory. They don't, and actual native Americans would probably agree.
If they are illegal aliens, their homeland is Mexico or parts further south until such time as they become legal American citizens.
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