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To: GarySpFc; Jim Robinson; pissant; CHARLITE; Billthedrill
"...I think each of us can start by calling these weakwilled senators and demanding they resign..."

Your idea has merit, but if we act individually, it will be easy to be overlooked and dismissed as cranks.

If we want to effect change, we need to act in concert. I have read the responses here, and can't help but conclude that we are letting what separates us get in the way of what we might all agree to.

Surely, we can put aside our individual exasperation, and use this forum to construct a platform of minimal demands to begin with, and let that expand as the body of this forum decides.

I can tell you one thing- it won't happen by itself. We perhaps can't force a Constitutional Convention, but we can start laying the foundations for one right here on this forum.

Many of us have studied, read, and argued, in order to polish our skills for the day we know must come, if we are to continue as a Republic of free men. Will we now say, "Gee... well, it kind of sounds like it might take up some of my time..." When times demand, a people rise to their feet, or become comfortable on their knees, restful and compliant.

If we can present 10,000 Freepers who agree on the following X,Y and Z, at least then we are not all wasting our time.

I have never been involved in a political movement, but can we not at least agree... that the time has come to band together as we may, and do a little pushing back?

If we stand on our own individual little patches of turf, and defend our own narrowly tailored, rigid anger, we thereby represent absolutely no immovable object to those who by profession build enough consensus to force change... and also resist change.

The time is now, and we have the talent... and the convention center right here. If we start the construction of the new party with what we can all primarily agree on, no matter how small to start, we can at least see, finally, whether we have a chance at succeeding.

247 posted on 03/27/2006 7:49:30 PM PST by pickrell (Old dog, new trick...sort of)
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To: pickrell; Jim Robinson

A platform won't do it.
It takes a party. Political action committees pressure, but in the end their interests are balanced with others.

Politicians running for office THREATEN, and it is the unapologetic THREAT - not as in "would you please consider" - but as in "I am better than you, I am going to take you job, and I am going to do it myself" that is most alarming to politicians.

Notice the way that Kerry moved towards Bush, because he had to co-opt whatever he could in order to have a shot.

Standing up a new, unapologetic political party, coast to coast and in every state, and running, and expanding it: THAT will scare the bejeezus out of the Republicans, especially (the Democrats will be laughing; but the Democrats were not laughing when Ventura took their Governor's Mansion away from them).

Immigration is an issue with LEGS.
So is land confiscation and that Kelo case.
Those are two issues that cut right down the center and make most people angry. Neither party addresses those issues. A new party could.

Third parties have always been a joke, because they were personal vehicles. Reform was a THREAT (it cost Bush the White House) because Perot was a billionaire. But there's never been communication like today. The Internet is like the Revolutionary Era Chambers of Correspondence.

If Jim Robinson converts this into a vehicle to create a party, he might very well win the country.
Literally.

Someone told him "run for President".

Well, perhaps.
Run for President, but run Billy Joe for Congressman from the 109th, and run Pickrell for Senator from State Z, etc.
There are thousands of candidates, and this party could have the fastest start up time in history. There could be a shell of a platform and 10,000 adherents and candidates nationwide TONIGHT, if Mr. Robinson decided to do it.

(He shouldn't go that fast. He should put out the word on FR for SERIOUS LEGAL ADVICE. Every lawyer here should advise. Every political operative here should pitch in.
Because we know America now. Do this, and he will be in danger of ARREST. We will learn terrible things about him. That's the way the Bush's work. That's the way the Clintons' work. That's the way the Republican machine and Democrat machine works. Legal preparation can avoid the legal ramifications. And we have to remember that people are not perfect, and vote for ideas, not personal perfection which is unattainable in men anyway.)


254 posted on 03/27/2006 8:01:20 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: pickrell
Thanks for the ping. I am still undecided as to what might be the most effective approach, but clearly there is going to have to be a message sent that this is a real problem and that it isn't going to be solved with platitudes.

First, let me assure the readers that for much of the U.S. this is simply not perceived as any change from the immigration of the past - Ellis Island and all that, which was, of course, legal immigration. Those who live in affected areas have been marginalized as cranks, racists, and rednecks, mostly by politicians for whom any action in this regard is impossibly expensive politically or for whom inaction is politically expedient. Those map broadly (but not entirely) to Republicans and Democrats respectively. And in addition some of the latter really do believe that we are cranks, racists, and rednecks.

Worse, the enthusiasm for empowering the unfortunate, especially in California, has led to the formation of a large voting bloc that will protect its perceived interests by violence as well as voting if necessary. These enjoy a broad sympathy toward the downtrodden that would be creditable were it not so easily manipulated. And it is being manipulated.

At the very least we need to emphasize that we have laws in this regard that we insist on being obeyed, both by those in country illegally and those without. And we need to enforce them. I would hope that not to have to include a physical wall but things have gotten to the point where that is no longer an unthinkable solution and may even be the most practical, at least for now. And none of this can take place while politicians still believe that the consequences of crossing a loud, violent minority outweigh the cost to the country as a whole and the cost to those who love it and want to live in it legally.

A Constitutional Convention is, however, a very grave matter indeed. I would hope that sitting politicians could be inveighed to enforce the existing law without threatening them with so fundamental and potentially dangerous a course of action. They act as if this matter were on the level of divvying up funding for freeway overpasses. It isn't.

271 posted on 03/27/2006 8:31:53 PM PST by Billthedrill
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