"Intelligent design" legislation in New York reborn

National Center for Science Education ^ | 21 March 2006 | Staff

[microgood]

So the one that is the most aesthetic is "correct?"

No, the one that allow free will and personal responsibility and the one under which mankind has acheived the greatest success spiritually, economically, politically and in obtaining freedom, as well as the one that has helped free others.

This will come as a surprise to the non-Christians in the world.

I think the rest of the world understand who the most advanced civilization in the world is. They certainly know we put a man on the moon and invented the bomb.

You do know that Christianity is a minority religion in the world, right?

In fact Christianity is the largest religion in the world, with 2.1 billion believers (33%),Islam (21%), agnostic (16%)(otherwise known as Europeans), and Hinduism (14%) with Buddhism or or about (6%).

[Dimensio]

Easy. Because its the truth.

Please demonstrate this claim.

[freedumb2003]

I think the use of the term intelligent design is appropriate. Whether or not intelligent design existed before the "dawn of man" or not, it exists now and they teach it in school already. It has names such as biochemistry and genetic engineering. When Monsanto creates a type of corn with a vaccine naturally embedded in its genetic code, they did not do it by evolution. They did it by intelligently looking at the laws that govern the structure of living things and "designing" new variants. They did not put it in a field and wait 100 million years and hope a solution presented itself. Intelligent design is here today. This is not a subject for the past alone. Those who refuse to see this are the modern equivelent of the Flat Earth Society. There is no religion in this. This is what we in the 21st century like to call Science.

That is NOT the ID being peddled. The ID they want to teach as a "theory" is repackaged Creationism. It says that and Intelligent Deisgner stepped in and did voodoo magic to change things at certain key points in the Evolutionary spectrum.

And just ain't a theory. It is just a Creation Story.

[furball4paws]

Christian Europe is so wishy washy that Muslims have a clear operating majority.

[DanielLongo]

I think we are agreeing on this from opposite ends of the same point. The fact that we are limited to and inspired by fixed principles and laws that exist in nature denote an orderly process (define it as you will) to the creation and continuation of all living things and the cosmos themselves. Evolution is a poorly thought scientific theory that smacks more of spontaneous generation than of empirical investigation.

[furball4paws]

Blame it on the prions.

[freedumb2003]

No, the one that allow free will and personal responsibility and the one under which mankind has acheived the greatest success spiritually, economically, politically and in obtaining freedom, as well as the one that has helped free others.

So, let me see if I understand your reasoning.

The religion (which is a minority by your own numbers) that produces the outcome you prefer has a superior Creation Story and thus, that story rises to the level of a "theory."

You know, because you like what it says.

What does that religion say about physics? Because by your criteria the religion with the outcome you like most is a scientific text.

Oh and it is the only "good" religion.

[microgood]

I am not aware of a creation story that led directly to any of the above.

Yes you are. You are just in denial and have created your own personal version of history that fits with your world view like many other evos on FR who believe a wikipedia version of history where all great acheivements were actually made by atheists or deists.

Moreover, I am not aware how leading to the above would demonstrate the validity of said story.

Generally the best theories lead to the greatest scientific acheivements. Well, maybe the best creation stories and religious beliefs result in the greatest advancements along with spiritual, emotional, economic and political freedoms.

[Join Or Die]

If you have to pass a law to force an idea into science class, that may be a hint that it's not a very solid scientific idea.

[microgood]

Christian Europe is so wishy washy that Muslims have a clear operating majority.

Agreed.

[furball4paws]

My point is that in their zeal to cover up the fact that ID is a religious ploy, CRIDers demean God, something I'm sure they don't mean to do, but a fact nonetheless. You were doing fine until that last sentence which shows you have on no clothes :)

[Coyoteman]

Evolution is a poorly thought scientific theory that smacks more of spontaneous generation than of empirical investigation.

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one.

The theory of evolution has survived 150 years of scientific advances and tests from very humble beginnings. It has survived because it was correct in its overall outline.

You may be mistaking the theory of evolution with some form of origin theory. Evolution deals with origin of species, all of which happened after origins of life.

[Dimensio]

Yes you are. You are just in denial and have created your own personal version of history that fits with your world view like many other evos on FR who believe a wikipedia version of history where all great acheivements were actually made by atheists or deists.

Please explain how belief in a specific creation story directly results in the development of an atomic bomb.

Generally the best theories lead to the greatest scientific acheivements. Well, maybe the best creation stories and religious beliefs result in the greatest advancements along with spiritual, emotional, economic and political freedoms.

I do not believe that you have sufficiently related economic and political success to the truth value of a particular creation story. Merely asserting a link is not the same as demonstrating a link.

[microgood]

The religion (which is a minority by your own numbers) that produces the outcome you prefer has a superior Creation Story and thus, that story rises to the level of a "theory."

I did not say that at all. I was just responding to your argument that all creation stories are somehow "equal". I consider that a bogus argument since they clearly are not. I was just pointing that out.

What does that religion say about physics?

Believers of that religion invented physics.

Oh and it is the only "good" religion

Nor did I say that. I said it was the most successful one and most beneficial to its adherents. Other religions that promote good values that benefit mankind are also good. Some that keep mankind under tyranny are bad.

[Central Scrutiniser]

I want Odin teached in the schools, if we are going to be ignorant, we should have a full world view ignorance.

[DanielLongo]

To keep the discussion linear, if in 100 million years someone picked up the debris of our civilization and found that genetically modified grain I mentioned earlier and you had two camps- One says,"Isn't nature incredible. From time to time we find these gems of evolution benefiting multiple organisms. The corn modified as it was insured its propagation because it was useful to a creature that had need of its physical and chemical properties". The other says, "some higher power must have intelligently designed it because there are structures that nature itself has no interest in creating -and certainly not by random mutations. Who is right? The ID guy of course. Is the problem only that they call this "designer" God. That seems a rather shallow retort.

[jec41]

So the one that is the most aesthetic is "correct?" This will come as a surprise to the non-Christians in the world. You do know that Christianity is a minority religion in the world, right?

Not quite true. Christians are the largest religion in the world at about 2 billion. About 30% of the worlds population. Muslims are second at about 1.7 billion. the rest are of mixed religions and non religious. I am not defending Christians, just a mistake.

[microgood]

Please explain how belief in a specific creation story directly results in the development of an atomic bomb.

Christianity and Western Civilization cannot be understood separately in any reasonable way. Christianity, unlike other religions, advanced with the ages because part of the core of the religion is free will. It was through advancements of human freedom that Western Civilization and science thrived and expanded over the centuries, leading eventually to the moon and the bomb.

I do not believe that you have sufficiently related economic and political success to the truth value of a particular creation story. Merely asserting a link is not the same as demonstrating a link.

You cannot separate Christianity from the Advancements of Western Civilization and be taken seriously when discussing the History of Western Civilization. Even my gay liberal Western Civilization history teacher in college did not try to do that. And I got an A in that class. But, with the advent of wikipedia and other liberal web sites as well as the modern crop of liberal historians, who knows what future generations will believe. I never read anything about history before 1900 that was written in this century.

[DanielLongo]

I am still waiting for the Evolution community to produce one fossil record that demonstrates the transition from one unique species to another. The early hominid theory has not proven very successful as the advances in science have shown no link between Neanderthalis, Cro Magnon, and Sapien. To disagree with you on your point, Evolutionists have had to make their connection now by referring to a "common ancestor" of which they still have not provided a composite. So we go from Adam and Eve to John and Jane Doe hominid. Show me the fossil record and we have a conversation.

[furball4paws]

I think he means "minority" in that there are more non-Christians than Christians.

Besides Christianity is so weak in many places that the Muslims have an operating lead in true believers. And if you believe some on these threads, Catholics are not Christians which really puts a crimp in the works.