TEEN MOWED DOWN (SHOT) OVER LAWN Just killed a kid, man tells 911

The Winnipeg Sun ^ | March 21, 2006 | AP

[Albion Wilde]

Thanks for the photo of the houses. The other thing that is a real problem in many communities is that the Associations won't allow people to fence in the property. When there are constant dog crap piles, kid's bike tracks and even motorcycles on other people's lawns and the owners aren't allowed to fence anything but a small square directly in the back of the house, it can get very out of hand, especially if a house is located near a shopping center, a school, or someplace others want to "cut" to.

It disturbs the peace and security in the home of the owners being targeted, it makes them feel singled out for abuse, reminds them that the other neighbors manifestly don't care about their feelings, and most importantly, it lowers the target home's property values.

[Albion Wilde]

How about a FENCE? You know, a FENCE?

See post 301. Many communities now won't allow a fence, adding to neighbor problems, IMO.

[Albion Wilde]

Don't let some petty peeve between you make for bad neighbors. I know, there are neighbors that you just can't do this with but they are few and far between.

You don't live in the Northeast.

[Albion Wilde]

I think you're being rude and provocative to Brucey'sMom. You should be the one to back off.

[Albion Wilde]

see post 301.

[30-06 Springfield]

I would have to vote with the majority on this one. The guy made a horrible mistake, but the kid was sure no angel and from the sound of things his parents need to take on some responsibility for the actions of their son. Being a little callous, but maybe a few more incidents like this and kids will once again respect the property of others. I am waiting for someone to get into a deadly confrontation over speaker volume in cars. I drive a full sized SUV and get bounced all over the place by some of these idiots.

[BluH2o]

But you are so quick to assume the old man is in the clear because 'he has no previous police record ...

In the clear? Where, pray tell, did you read that in my response? The 'lawn guy' has no previous police record, retired from Ford Motor Company after 30 years, lived in his home for nearly as long and owns it outright. Up to this point in his life he's been a law abiding, tax paying citizen, more than I can say for a helluva lot of other perps who have shot and killed someone just to see them die. You may be a 'grad student' buddy ... try getting some old fashioned walking around sense ... doesn't come with a degree ... usually with maturity and you're obviously not there yet.

[latina4dubya]

Where in that photo do you think the kid was standing when the guy pulled the shotgun on him?

i bet what the kid would do was cut diagonally across his lawn onto the old man's lawn and then onto the street/sidewalk... over and over again, this probably bothered the old man... he probably kept telling the kid to stop walking on his lawn... maybe the kid had no respect for the man and his property... didn't care and just kept walking across it... and now he's dead... dead for a lawn...

my father, who is a landscaper, taught me to never walk across someone's lawn... personally, if i were the old man, i would have put up a fence or rose bushes... i'd rather do that than deal with disrespectful neighbors... sad, sad, sad all the way around...

[Albion Wilde]

...many if not most kids these days will simply do as they please and, if you as the homeowner, tell them to stop, they will ignore you, flip you off, give you lip, and maybe even escalate the situation.... when I come by to talk to the parents, I'm met with a parent that's now a bigger problem than the kid. All that said, this old guy will be convicted of murder ... rightfully so. But this kid, his friends, and his parents pushed the man's buttons for sure. It dosen't make it right. It just makes it what it is - sad.

You are correct on all three points. It is the disintegration of our society that is the saddest thing of all, and the mortar that used to hold it together in the community was *respect*.

[Tunehead54]

You forgot your smiley ;-) or your /sarc tag.

I believe Navaho indians also include a flaw in their art so as not to offend their god by presuming to create something perfect.

I'm a lapsed Catholic but I still ensure there is at least one imperfection in every one of my home improvement projects. My wife says I'm doing it half-assed but she just doesn't understand the philosophical underpinnings of my technique. ;-)

[Hacksaw]

She's right; you're being a jerk. Just apologize and make nice.

I agree with Shalom - you're being a jerk.

[SALChamps03]

In my view, insanity does not equal innocence.

[Paridel]

In the clear? Where, pray tell, did you read that in my response?

Good grief, I didn't mean to imply you said that at all, although that is clearly what came across in my post. I apologize for that.

You may be a 'grad student' buddy ... try getting some old fashioned walking around sense ...

I only said I was a grad student to establish my relative closeness in age to this kid, but also that I have made some social progress since then (as I have had my previous posts discredited when I mentioned my age).

But your original post still irritates me.

So what is this guy had worked for 30 years at Ford? So what is he owned his home out right? According to Cornell: 87% of homes owned by the elderly poor in 1991 were owned free and clear Very few of us have criminal records. You are setting a pretty low standard here.

It wouldn't be hard to dig around a bit in the news for well established members of society, who probably were more well liked than this old bastard, and yet were hiding immense skeletons in their closets. People like Antonio Lasaga who I am sad to share the same species with.

You seemed to have jumped to conclusions based solely on this mans age and the age of the boy that was shot and killed. Clearly you did not say the old man was correct, but your post did seem to indicate that the boy must have done something to deserve retribution, albeit something less severe.

The facts of the case are that this man shot and killed a 15 year old kid because he was walking across his lawn. Anything else the kid did in the past is speculation. This isn't a hypothetical situation here: right now that kid is lying dead in a morgue and his parents are preparing for the funeral. I simply don't think it is appropriate for us to speculate on what else the kid may have done or not, but most of the posts I see in this thread seem to assume that the kid or his parents are partially at fault.

more than I can say for a helluva lot of other perps who have shot and killed someone just to see them die.

I can empathize more with the average street thug than this old man. He shot a kid over some bent grass. At least most gang members shoot their own ilk it is over something a little more viable.

-paridel

[Paridel]

If you climb over a fence marked "no trespassing," you have no right to expect not to be eaten by a polar bear.

If you die of natural causes the coroner has a right to expect not to get blown to bits trying to reach your property. Similarly if rescue crews (or maybe just a neighborhood good Samaritan) need to reach you for aid.

There are dozens or more reasons why people should have a reasonable expectation not to be living next to a warzone. As you said you have a right to protect your person and property as long as it does not impend upon other's rights. Clearly this does.

-paridel

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Shooting a kid over a lawn issues is a mental disorder in any book. He was measuring the grass with a yard stick for God's sake! If pointing that out made some people recognize their own obsessiveness, so be it. Let's hope no one gets shot this week for not washing their hands or leaving a toliet seat up or whatever causes such people to go bananas and have red-faced shouting tantrums.

[TheDon]

If the perp couldn't build a fence because of his HOA, then he should have moved. It beats killing trespassers.

[Albion Wilde]

If the perp couldn't build a fence because of his HOA, then he should have moved. It beats killing trespassers.

I certainly agree with you. I'm just referring to the 5 years of aggravation; and I have seen a great deal of aggravation in my neighborhood because of people who trespass and then get up in the owners' faces when they are asked not to do it.

The news article said the man went to the neighbor and asked politely; the words she quoted were that he said he "would appreciate it if" the kids didn't trespass. Nothing like that does any good any more.

That said, shooting is not the answer. I have made liberal use of red pepper on my lawn, though, and the dogs howl like crazy but they don't dump here any more.