The Titanic of health care (UK Health Care)

www.melaniephillips.com ^ | 3/9/05 | Melanie Phillips

[poobear]

Save to Favorites for the next National Health Care debate.

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[Jacquerie]

To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, if we think health care is expensive now, just wait until its free.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

Thanks for publishing this. British Healthcare may be terribly, but it costs less than 10% of GDP and covers everyone. They can probably fix it by spending about 2% more.

The US fails to cover between 10% and 15% of its people and its system costs 16% of GDP - the world's most expensive.

The German system, on the other hand costs 13% of GDP, covers everyone, offers both public coverage and private coverage and is absolutely fantastic. Germany has more doctors per person than anyone in the world.

Japan's system is even cheaper and they have a longer life expectancy than Americans.

It seems only the English speaking countries have screwed up nationalized healthcare. The Americans should adopt the German model in this circumstance.

Before you say it, I realize that part of the cost of the American system is the cost of drugs, which is cheaper elsewhere. But, tort reform, combined with more collective bargaining and an introduction of a German style coverage is the real answer to lowering the costs of healthcare (bureaucracy) covering everyone and still maintaining a system that provides top quality care.

To remove another argument, the reason that top research and medicine gets done in the US and not Germany is because America has the best universities, not because it has the best health care system.

A system that is the world's most expensive and doesn't even cover everyone can hardly be called the best.

[poobear]

About the only things I can agree with you on is need for tort reform and that America has the best universities. I am a Capitalist not a Socialist.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

I am a Capitalist not a Socialist.

Given that healthcare is a limited good required by all, that means it is necessarily rationed. (Feel free to dispute this claim, but please use economic arguments)

Other examples are water, fishing rights, pollution rights and the electro-magnetic spectrum.

All of these things are rationed in every industrialized country.

The only industrialized country that doesn't have universal healthcare is the United States. And that (among other reasons) is why Toyota is crushing the American car companies.

[poobear]

Would like like to pay my Medicare Employee matching funds for each employee each month? We have free medical care for all who need it. It is the illegals and freeloaders along with greedy malpractice attorneys that are bleeding our healthcare to the brink.

I wouldn't live in Europe (up to 12% unemployment) and have to wait a year for a mamogram or a prostate check when all I have to do is make an appointment a recieve this service in less than a week in the states for under $500.00.

"If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it's free." P.J. O'Rourk

[IamConservative]

Be interesting to know what the repsective tort laws are in coutries where nationalized healthcare exists. If I had to pick one single thing to focus on for turning our free market healthcare system around, I think it would be DRASTICALLY limit liability for the care provider. Something simple like a consent form that says: "Do you want to live?" If you check yes, the liability is immediately limited to the actual costs of the procedure and/or care.

I have an acquaintance that is a surgeon. He pays ~$300K/year in malpractice insurance. If he ever has to make a claim, he is pretty much washed up in the business as he would no longer be able to afford insurance so he could work.

[Jacquerie]

A system that is the world's most expensive and doesn't even cover everyone can hardly be called the best.

I will not willingly give up another freedom and raise my taxes for an amorphous promise of "free health-care". In this country I suspect that one unintended consequence will be a doctor shortage. Why work incredibly hard to become an MD only to have the government (as planned in Hillary-Care) set your salary?

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

I wouldn't live in Europe (up to 12% unemployment) and have to wait a year for a mamogram or a prostate check

1. If you want to work, you can find a job. The 12% are people who don't want to work

2. Only the British have to wait. Every other country has fantastic and immediate care. The British even send some of their patients to Germany.

[poobear]

I'm glad you are happy with high taxation and a socialist government. I recently worked the Nikon BV PMA show in Orlando with representative from Germany, France, U.K., Russia, The Netherlands and few others. They felt a little differently than you albeit they loved their countries.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

one unintended consequence will be a doctor shortage.

You are only parroting the myth of the HMOs and Pharmaceuticals who are the only winners from the system

Did you read the part about how Germany has more doctors per capita than any other country? They still do pretty well and some only take private patients and do even better if they are good.

Secondly, you already pay huge sum for healthcare. If 16% of US GDP is going to healthcare, where do you think that is coming from? Reduce it to 12% and there is a huge benefit for the whole country including you.

Keep in mind the US only spends 4% of GDP on the military. Are these numbers too difficult for you to understand?

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

I didn't say I was happy with high taxation. There are huge problems in Germany and there are enormous wastes of money are millions of lazy slobs. But we are talking about healthcare and you are parroting the propaganda of the HMOs and Pharmaceutical companies that are the only winners from the absurd American system.

Bring down the cost of healthcare from 16% of GDP to 12% and cover everyone and then you have the best system in the world. Until then, the big country equivalents in Germany and Japan are far superior based on pure cost/benefit analysis.

Based on your patriotism warped by propaganda however maybe there is nothing that can be done to convince you that a system that spends more for less is somehow better than the reverse.

[mewzilla]

But we are talking about healthcare and you are parroting the propaganda of the HMOs and Pharmaceutical companies that are the only winners from the absurd American system.

Really? Then why is Medicaid sucking up over 90% of my county's budget?

[Malesherbes]

I have some elderly British friends who have experienced the horrors of the NHS, but they accept it as inevitable and unavoidable. The NHS has replaced the Anglican Church as the place where the British worship.

The Blair government has stripped the former British colonies of doctors and nurses to try to improve the provider to patient ratios, but IMHO the basic problem is that the whole mess is too expensive to sustain, especially in an aging society.

[poobear]

Thank you for your insight. Our problem here in the states is whenever our government gets hold of anything with our tax dollars it goes to hell in a hand basket. 12% goes to 15% then 25% and so on. Nothing improves. More government regulation and more taxation is the only result. Hell, look at the FEMA disaster. 250 Billion to rebuild New Orleans? That's 1.2 million per resident. I don't think so. What would they do with health care? Frightening thought. A disaster waiting to happen.

[JusPasenThru]

Doof da boofen bumb.

[Jacquerie]

I parrot no one. Are you too stupid to understand that limiting choice in health care is inconsistent in a free country?

Euro socialism has turned into euro-sclerosis. It is why their economies grow at only half the US rate. It will not be long before the US per capita GDP is twice that of the European average.

The reason US healthcare is expensive is because of too much government involvement, not too little.

[investigateworld]

But the Brit's have machines that go 'ping'!

[monocle]

Price is the most efficient for rationing. Rarely, if ever, is it mentioned that health insurance is probably the greatest driver of health care costs, i.e. coverage by insurance increases demand.