Lopez: How America's churches are harboring criminals (A Promiscuous Love)

Harboring illegal immigrants is criminal behavior. Encouraging and abetting the (so far) unarmed invasion of the united States is sedition. This crap started during the Salvadoran insurgency when leftist clerics began offering 'sanctuary' to border jumpers from El-Sal. It's the same garbage just a different decade done by the same set of clerico-marxists who earnestly sought the victory of our enemies in the Cold War.

The truly great folks are guys like you, who accuse people of serious crimes without a shred of evidence.
I especially like your argument that inviting someone to worship with you is equivalent to sedition. Exactly how is that position different from Maoism?

Nonsense! This is NOT simply a case of inviting someone to worship with you, and goes far beyond that. The evidence is in the admission they are helping and some are illegals, and the proof is found in the convictions for pedophilia.

The moneychangers clearly were breaking the intent of the law.

Indeed they were. And turning someone away because they are in violation of a law the government itself doesn't even feel like enforcing is breaking the intent of the Gospel.

If the government doesn't want Mexicans worshipping in American churches then the government should commit appropriate resources to preventing Mexicans from entering the US.

Criticizing churches for treating sinful human beings like fellow Christians is laughable.

Are churches supposed to check papers at their doors? Should churches investigate all their congregants to make sure all of them are compliant with the tax laws, that they are not wanted on any outstanding criminal warrants in other states, etc.? Should Bernie Ebbers' pastor be sued for receiving illegally-obtained funds in his collection plate?

If the government wants pastors to be pol;icemen then they should pay them a policeman's salary.

Until that happens, blame the government, not the churches.

Harboring illegal immigrants is criminal behavior.

"Harboring" is a legal term and anyone who claimed in a court of law that allowing an illegal to attend a church service and the subsequent coffee hour constituted "harboring" under the statute would be admonished for wasting the court's time with trivial nonsense.

Encouraging and abetting the (so far) unarmed invasion of the united States is sedition.

Sedition is also a legal term and it applies to people who engage in armed insurrection with the purpose of overthrowing the government or those who encourage others to participate in such a project. Again, claiming that allowing someone to worship in your church is sedition is laughable.

This crap started during the Salvadoran insurgency when leftist clerics began offering 'sanctuary' to border jumpers from El-Sal.

There is a difference between arranging and conducting illegal cross-border transportation and putting a sign outside one's church welcoming people in Spanish.

It's the same garbage just a different decade done by the same set of clerico-marxists who earnestly sought the victory of our enemies in the Cold War.

Which of the 30 or so independent churches referenced in the article were aligned with Communism during the Cold War?

Nonsense! This is NOT simply a case of inviting someone to worship with you

The article we are discussing specifically criticizes a church for putting out a sign in Spanish inviting daylaborers to worship.

and goes far beyond that

The only thing beyond that is the claim that there are illegal pastors within the congregation. If these are actually ordained and paid pastors, that would be a crime - but seeing how loosely the term "pastor" is thrown around in many independent congregations (like a "youth pastor" who is simply the teen in the congregation who raises his hand when the real pastor asks who wants to conduct a teen Bible study) I doubt it.

The evidence is in the admission they are helping and some are illegals

It is not illegal to "help" illegal immigrants. It is illegal to assist them in evading the law - it is not illegal to offer them a meal or give them directions or CPR.

and the proof is found in the convictions for pedophilia

Which of the 30 independent churches referenced here have pastors with pedophilia convictions?

Well said.

There is an entire volume devoted to glorifying these jackasses in the 'border sanctuary movement' entitled 'God and Caesar at the Rio Grande: Sanctuary and the Politics of Religion' by the highly evolved Hilary Cunningham .

For a specific start the Southside Presbyterian Church
317 West 23rd Street ,Tucson, AZ 85713,520-623-6857, proudly displays its linkage to the following on their web pages:

Humane Borders is a collaborative effort among local faith communities to provide humanitarian aid to migrants, and to work for changes in INS policies to the benefit of undocumented immigrants. There is a year-round commitment to establish and maintain desert watering stations at a number of locations west and southwest of Tucson. Volunteer opportunities include water transport, office services and to collecting and transporting shoes, socks and winter clothing to the border. Contact: Robin Hoover, 743-3221

No More Deaths is a diverse coalition of individuals, faith communities, human rights advocates, and grassroots organizers who have joined together to work for justice along the U.S.- Mexico border. It is a bi-national network of migrant-friendly organizations and individuals throughout the United States and northern Mexico that participate through symbolic and direct action. Contact: No More Deaths, 882-5466

Samaritans seek to save lives and relieve suffering of migrants, to educate people about the plight of migrants, to restore compassion and hospitality along our borders and to encourage elected leaders to humanize border policy. Contact: Linda Ray, 327-7544

Asylum Program of Southern Arizona is a nonprofit, legal aid organization for refugees who seek political asylum but are unable to hire attorneys to represent them before the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) and the Immigration Court.

Borderlinks Founded in the 1980's as the educational arm of the Sanctuary Movement, Borderlinks provide educational programs for faith-base groups that want to examine issues arising where first and third world economies interface. BorderLinks offers immersion education programs along the US/Mexico border, ranging from 1 day to 2 weeks. Volunteers are used on an as needed basis to assist with bulk mailings and to answer the telephone during periods of peak office activity. Donations of clothing are welcomed; particularly children's clothing, as well as blankets and warm garments during winter months. Occasionally, where skill-level and need coincide, there are opportunities to teach English as a second language at the border or immerse yourself intensive Spanish language study. Contact 628-8263

These folks are far from being an exception. The so called mainstream churches through such activities such as the Methodist Board of Social Welfare have pushed socialism for decades and were always happy to either engage in undermining national resolve by trying to foment hysteria over 'the menace of nuclear weapons' (ours not the Soviets)
or propagate defeatism during the Viet Nam conflict and throughout the Reagan presidency. For a very good example of this sort of clerical stooge (to not rate the behavior as worse) one only has to read the writings and pronouncements of Eugene Carson Blake of whom it was written:

The General Council of the United Presbyterian Church wrote of Dr. Blake's departure, "We give him freely, but we claim him fully," and it emphasized, "We were already committed to the ecumenical task. He added momentum to our direction." And of his term as stated clerk the eulogy continued: "Within three years he was elected President of the National Council of the Churches of Christ. He was soon a member of the Central Committee and the Executive Committee of the World Council of Churches [1954]. He led the first delegation of American churchmen beyond the Iron Curtain thus to affirm that neither principalities nor competing powers could separate those who belong to Christ." But there he was dealing with Metropolitan Nicolai, later identified by the United States' Senate Internal Security Committee as an agent of the KGB, the Soviet secret police.

The Communists had captured Blake in their program for peaceful coexistence and as a leading Protestant spokesman to provide a platform in the United States for Nicolai and Nikodim, the chief spokesmen of the Communist government to carry on its effective psychological warfare. Though this collaboration with the Communist spokesmen has become a major issue throughout the Christian world and particularly in the United States, Presbyterian Life, June 1, 1966, featured the picture of Nicolai placing his hand on the Liberty Bell in Independence Hall and said, "In historic 1956 visit, churchmen from U.S.S.R. are taken by Blake and others to see the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia." The acceptance of the Communist-controlled churches into the World Council of Churches was made possible by Dr. Blake's leadership more than by any other single factor, and when the decision was made to elevate Dr. Blake to the most powerful position in the Protestant world, the nomination was first cleared with the Soviet officials.

TIME magazine, February 18, 1966, reported the decision as follows: "The main obstacle to Blake's election was potential opposition from the influential delegates of Orthodox churches behind the Iron Curtain. Although Blake is well liked by the Orthodox—he led a pioneering team of U.S. churchmen to Moscow in 1956, and three years ago helped arrange a U.S. tour by representatives of the Russian patriarchate—the council officers feared that Russian delegates might be under governmental pressure to vote against an American. Discreetly assured that this was not so, a special nominating committee of the council then went ahead to propose Blake." The men who were controlling the Russian delegation were the Russian government and secret police spokesmen.

The General Council's eulogy of Dr. Blake pointed up next, "His 1960 sermon in San Francisco began the process of consultation which may lead to the union of eight American denominations." But Dr. Blake himself, as reported in the Courier-Express, Buffalo, New York, May 14, 1961, "expressed the hope that his Protestant merger plan, which will go before the United Presbyterian General Assembly this week, will become one step in a long range reunion of all Christendom, including the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Churches." He was the author of the "Open Letter on Church Unity," which laid the foundations of the Consultation on Church Union. A testimonial dinner given to him on May 9, 1966, in New York City featured Roy Wilkins, leader of NAACP; Walter P. Reuther, of AFL-CIO; John C. Bennett, president of Union Theological Seminary; and the program itself declared that God had called him "to march for freedom, to declare the equality of the children of God, to summon the churches to unity of action, to fight the good fight for the poor, to submit to civil arrest…" The latter was a reference to his civil disobedience on July 4, 1963, in Baltimore, Maryland.

Everything that Dr. Blake has previously done and all the program that is outlined for the future is for the development of the world church and world government. This is amply prepared for, so far as church sanction is concerned, in the Confession of 1967. Dr. Blake has led the Presbyterian Church through revolution to a destruction of the Westminster Confession of Faith and now he has moved to Geneva, Switzerland, to lead the whole world through revolution in the development of what he called on December 1, 1966, in his inaugural statement "a world community of peoples."

At a press conference in Geneva, Switzerland, Friday, July 22, Dr. Blake and Metropolitan Nikodim both made statements and concluded the conference by giving to each other the kiss of peace. Each kissed the other on both cheeks. Dr. Blake's statement reads:

There are some people, even within the membership of the churches, who do not believe the Church can contribute to the transformation of society. They believe that any religious institution is altogether conservative, which is to say its value, if any, to society is to conserve the tradition which blesses and sanctifies the society as it is.

A living Church in any particular place, unless it is a protesting minority by tradition, does in fact perform a conservative function in its society and that is the chief reason most of its members and the community at large value it. But a living Christian Church performs another function, too. It is a stimulus, a critic, an inspirer, a value setter of the society. It is this latter function that is the subject of this brief address.

How does a Christian Church contribute to the transformation of society?

1. First of all through its regular services of the public worship of God. In all our traditions the scriptures are read; thanksgiving, petition and intercession are voiced in prayer; the sacraments are offered; and God's praise is sung. In most churches there is the regular preaching and teaching from the Bible and sometimes this preaching is relevant to the real issues faced by the congregation, both as individuals and as a part of the community.

I mention this, first, because some of us, in our anxiety to do better than we have done, forget how central to any relevance of the Church is its regular worship of God. If I did not believe this, I would have long since put my efforts into some more efficient institution for social transformation such as a school or a political party.

2: A second way the Church contributes to the transformation of society is by the formulation of concrete goals for society and concrete means to reach them in the light of the gospel. These may be formulated, and are formulated at each level of the church's structure from the local level to the world level. This is what we are doing here.

Pronouncements, studies, manifestos, and the like often seem powerless. Their effect is seldom spectacular. I have heard for many years more criticism of the Churches and Councils making pronouncements than I have praise or appreciation. Nevertheless the public witness of the Church by public pronouncement does affect society, both immediately and in the long term. In 1952 when Senator McCarthy was at the height of his sinister power and influence in the United States; before his fellow Senators found their courage to discipline him, when the other branches of government and even the universities were amazingly quiet, my own church, through the leadership of John Mackay, did in fact help bring about the end in the United States of that phase of the cold war by a public pronouncement.

In 1966 it is clear that the statements of the World Council of Churches and of the National Council of Churches in my country are, even if as yet unsuccessful in determining policy, nevertheless an important contribution to that corrective criticism of United States foreign policy to keep it from runaway escalation.

In the long range, study documents and policy resolutions can make an incalculable difference. There is nothing so powerful as good and compelling ideas set down in language that is understood.

3. Again the Church contributes to the transformation of society by its pastoral care of its members who are in positions of influence and leadership in government, private institutions, and voluntary organizations. I know of no Church which has done this adequately. It is easier to criticize than to care. This pastoral work does not need to be restricted to the ordained clergy. But it is part of the calling of priest or minister and can be of vital significance.

4. Finally, the Church can contribute to the transformation of society by clearly identifying itself with the cause of the poor, the discriminated against, the alien, the prisoner, the rejected and the outcast. Most churches, as churches, do not do this very well. They are content to leave it to the occasional saint or prophet whom, as our Lord has indicated, they acknowledge and praise only after they are dead.

In a world such as ours the occasional production of an authentic saint is not enough. The Church as Church must act, take a stand, and march with those in the society who alone cannot win their battle for justice, freedom, and equality. This is a risk. It results always in controversy. But if the Church is to live it dare not, in our kind of world, turn its back on God's poor. Youth of the Church are usually the first leaders. It was so in the civil rights revolution still going on in my country. Young people, boys and girls, began the sit-ins in lunch counters long before their elders, ministers and laymen, priests and nuns began to march and demonstrate. I am convinced that the putting of one's body in the right place and at the right time is often the only way that a Christian can help his Church to be a part of the transformation of society.

There is another battle going on in my country in which the churches are just beginning to become fully involved. It is the war against poverty. Closely tied into the race and civil rights problem, as yet we have not been able to make our churches generally see the moral issue that it is. I hope this conference and its reports will help us.

There are, however, a number of denominations who, with the Roman Catholic Church in many cities of the United States, are fully committing their financial resources, programmes and leadership to the mobilizing of the poor themselves in community action. Political power for the poor themselves-in many of our cities this is black power-is one important ingredient in the transformation of our society as more and more the city is the location of the struggle.

All of these ways of influence are costly. They cost money, sometimes even by the withholding of gifts by those who do not yet understand. But more, this influence is costly in sacrifice of time, and effort, and thought, and at the ultimate, of life itself. Comfortable American churches have been pained and surprised and troubled and inspired by the fact that we have had some authentic martyrs in our time. No normal man sets out to be a martyr. But sometimes simple integrity and love, more important even than courage, puts Christian bodies where the action is, and this is the way the Church contributes to the transformation of society.

Metropolitan Nikodim's statement is significant for various reasons. He expressed the foreign policy position of the Soviet Government in regard to the war in Vietnam, and when I, as a press reporter for the Christian Beacon, asked him what the difference was between his statement and that of the Soviet Government, he indicated that they were the same. He also decided hat the time had come when he could confess publicly that the Christians of the Soviet Union "are active builders of a classless, socialist society." The Communist-controlled churches are helping to build the Communist society and promoting the Communist interests in psychological warfare throughout the world. This statement alone reveals that Dr. Blake has been aiding those who have used him and the National Council of Churches to promote the cause of world Communism. Nikodim's statement in full reads:

The convoking of a conference, having as its aim the definition of the place and role of the church, i.e. of millions of Christians, in the conditions of the revolutions of our time, whether of political, revolutionary change, or social, economic change is most significant. It speaks of the growing consciousness of Christians, including church leaders, of their responsibility before society and before the community of men as a whole.

The membership of our conference reflects the basic social structure of our time as it has taken shape. Those taking part have come from the developed countries of the West, the developing countries and the socialist countries. The presence of numerous ecclesiastical and secular authorities permits the members of the conference to receive a fairly wide and in many ways very exact picture of the state of the community of man, with its realities and problems, its successes and misfortune, with its hopes and its faith in the present time.

When I speak of the needs and problems of the contemporary world, there rises before me the image of the valiant struggling and suffering people of Vietnam and the heart of man cannot but be filled with a sacred indignation before the cruel and unlawful actions of the United States in Vietnam. At the same time, it is impossible not to think of the cruel racist regime of the Republic of South Africa and in Southern Rhodesia, the struggle for liberation of the peoples of Angola and Mozambique, various aspects of the painful process that is the establishment of independence-political and economic-of the peoples of many African countries, possessing an ancient and highly developed culture and who have none the less been pushed back in their movement forward, on the way to progress, by civilized colonisors, who have frequently used to this end and to their shame the sacred symbol of the Cross of Our Lord. There takes place before our eyes the valiant struggle of the peoples of the Latin-American countries for liberation from oligarchic dictatorships and a harmful foreign tutelage.

I should also like to say that Christians in the Soviet Union, as Archpriest Borovoi has already said in his commentary, have not only accepted the socialist revolution that took place in our country, but have and are active builders of a classless, socialist society, which is free from exploitation, racial or other inequality, and every member of which possesses equal rights as well as the opportunity for individual development and an active participation in the life of the whole of society.

I think there is no need for me to speak of the theological significance and necessity of these profound revolutionary transformations to which we Christians must give our answer. A great deal has already been said about this at the Conference.

Our Conference testifies to the continual process of growing consciousness among Christians of the necessity of a many-sided service to humanity on a national, regional or global scale of the understanding, by many Christians, of the necessity to have one's place among these who, in difficult conditions of struggle, contribute to the advancement of humanity on the way to progress.

Our Russian Orthodox Church, as all Christians in our country, actively asserts its testimony in our society, taking part in its development and improvement. We are pleased to be taking part in this Conference and will be happy if our experience can in any way help our meeting to come to a result which will contribute to the successful service of churches and Christians to all humanity, its progress, its peace and well-being.

And may the Lord of Life and the World, Our Lord Jesus Christ, help us in all this.

It was also clear at the conference that Dr. Blake will never be able to issue any statements or do anything so far as the World Council is concerned until it has first been cleared with Moscow. This is a requirement of their unity, and has become the normal practice of the World Council of Churches.

If Dr. Blake is as successful in his revolutionary program for the whole world as he was in establishing the Confession of 1967, there will be an eclipse of freedom upon the earth.

Those who welcome and help enable the hosts of illegals are indeed guilty of sedition which is defined as 'incitement of resistance to or of insurrection against lawful order' in spirit if not in some legalistic sense. Those who helped enable the horde of Salvadoran illegals infest certain cities bear some responsibility for the subsequent rise of the MS13 gang which literally resists lawful order every day in the city I live.

This article in the NR is not about some church offering a warm place and a cup of coffee for an odd hour for day laborers waiting for the shape up. It is about churches that go out of their way to become enabling institutions to encourage illegal immigration and work diligently for a de facto open border condition.

I've lived in the turd world, it is hell on earth and the prospect of it being imported into the US fills me with rage and loathing for those home grown traitors that would help it happen here.

Thank you for this post..all that needs to be said to expose those who support the illegal actions of these
clerics and neo Marxist stooges.

The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born

But very different rules applied to hostile invaders (eg, Assyrians).

Your post is a classic example of misdirection.

You make the absolutely correct claim that mainstream churches are involved in illegal activity.

You then make the correct inference that the involvement of these mainstream churches, like the mainline Presbyterians and Methodists, in the WCC is a good indicator of anti-American political sympathies. No serious person can deny that the WCC began as and still is a Communist front organization and that Eugene C. Blake was a conscious Communist collaborator - perhaps even a paid Communist agent.

However, the article we are discussing describes two kinds of churches - independent congregations and the Catholic Church. The former refuse to affiliate with even small, conservative organizations, let alone the WCC. The Catholic Church has continuously and explicitly refused to join the WCC despite decades of pleas and inducements.

So, while your long disquisition on the perfidy of the WCC is interesting, it's off-topic.

Those who welcome and help enable the hosts of illegals are indeed guilty of sedition which is defined as 'incitement of resistance to or of insurrection against lawful order' in spirit if not in some legalistic sense.

Again, there is a difference between helping someone commit a crime and helping a person in need.

This article in the NR is not about some church offering a warm place and a cup of coffee for an odd hour for day laborers waiting for the shape up.

Um, that's exactly what the article discusses.

I've lived in the turd world, it is hell on earth and the prospect of it being imported into the US fills me with rage and loathing for those home grown traitors that would help it happen here.

"Turd world", "rage and loathing" - nice sentiments. Very Christian.

But very different rules applied to hostile invaders (eg, Assyrians).

So a daylaborer looking for work is a "hostile invader"?

Thanks for contributing so much to the discussion, guys.

You need a speck more of good cheer.

My cheer is A-OK! Even after Dr. Thorne made his pointless comment I thanked him.

It just seems odd to me that both of you stopped by just to criticize me for no reason, instead of contributing to the thread discussion.

""Turd world", "rage and loathing" - nice sentiments. Very Christian.""
>>>>>>>>>>>................
if not accurate descriptions ( I agree with those words as I have lived much to long in the third world -only a fool would think otherwise)..why do you champion the illegals coming here let them live in the turd world paradise you seem to take offense with. Why would so called religious people harm their neighbors to provide for strangers??

A former Texas pastor actually compared churches providing a safe haven
to illegal immigrants to the Jewish asylums of World War II.

I doubt that liberal Jewish provacateurs will slam this Texas pastor for
(by extension) implying that the government of Mexico is run by Nazis.

I doubt the good pastor is ready to support a military expedition to
topple the elites of Mexico and turn Mexico into a working republic.

Righteous Jews do not spell out the name of God. Maybe you should do some comparative religion courses before you get so nasty with other freepers.

Widey - you need to live up to your screen name. You are not wide awake to the dangers of ILlegal immigration.

I have nothing - NOTHING - against LEGAL immigration. It's the ILLEGAL kind I loathe.

Do you know what percentage of illegal aliens there are in US prisons? Any clue of who pays for this? Ever read about the hospitals near the border going under because of illegal aliens?

What is your point? Just open the borders and let the tsunami roar through?

I am a very busy person and don't have the time to spend on FR that I would like (and used to have). I just appreciated Thorne's comment very much and wanted to say so. I often do such when I read something true and to the point.

You seem just a tad tightly wound.

I agree that immigration laws should be enforced and that people who conspire to help others break immigration laws should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

However, pastors should not be considered criminals for inviting everyone, be they innocent or be they criminal, to worship.