Some Teachers Say Merit Pay Plan Is a Bitter Apple [FL E-Comp Plan]

The Ledger ^ | March 15, 2006 | Julia Crouse

[summer]

WINTER HAVEN -- The modern reality of teaching in Florida schools makes Bess Lott, a 32-year veteran, wonder whether she'd choose teaching as a career if she had it to do over.

Constant paperwork, comparatively low pay and FCAT pressure are all headaches, said the third-grade teacher at Winter Haven's Snively Elementary School of Choice.

But e-comp, the Department of Education's performance pay proposal, is the final straw, she said.

"They're talking about our salaries," she said....

[summer]

spearte = separate

[summer]

not all public schools are bad.

That's true, too. And, BTW, don't think those public schools are hiring loads of new teachers. They're not.

[summer]

Well, tenure is a whole other ball of wax. I think with merit pay, and identifying the top teachers, tenure wil eventually be on the table and be eliminated.

[summer]

Starting salaries are between 30 and 40 thousand a year around here

Low 30's is where teachers now start where I live, too. BTW, the average -- repeat average -- price of a home here is now $500K. How many decades does a teacher have to work before she can leave an apartment rental in those circumstances?

[cbkaty]

In the fall I start down that road with my first born. As both I and my wife also got the private school education starting in 1st grade and onward we both believe in it. From 7th grade onward I was working a little to help pay for it.

Good for you, your wife, and your children....now go forth and convince others...one family at a time.

There is a special place in a young person's heart for those responsible for their non-public school education.... That special place gets larger as they get wiser.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

Teacher's salaries are low, but so are government workers like Police and Firemen. My Stepson became a teacher and in discussions with him, I thought that he know what to expect in teacher pay. However, once he had to live on that pay, it struck home. He was willing to continue with teaching, but teaching in a really bad school was too much for him. He did not like following orders to socially promote functionally illiterate kids.

So he joined the Army. The Army doesn't pay a lot, be even as an E-5 he is doing better financially than he was as a teacher, and he likes his job.

Teachers do make more as they gain experience and/or higher degrees. I know teachers in Georgia with 25 years of experience and MA degrees that make 70K per year.

Before an individual selects their life calling, they need to research matters such as salary and benefits.

[TChris]

Its one thing to spit back an answer to a cross multiplication question, but can you use that skill to find how many more hits you'll need to bat .350 in a game?

But this argument goes to the design of the test. If the test isn't looking at useful skills, then the test should be fixed. I agree that the test should have real-world questions.

This doesn't change the fact that the evaluation of and compensation for a teacher should be centered on how well he teaches, not how long he's been a teacher. There are plenty of teachers who simply do not improve over time.

Only unions continue to preach pay-for-longevity over pay-for-performance. Taxpayers and students both deserve better.

[TChris]

... this is, in fact, how many other professions operate. You can start and stay at $X dollars, or, you can take it upon yourself to earn more.

That, plus the fact that you can be fired in most other professions. Tenure is the other demon in our current public education system.

[mysterio]

If teachers' salaries become tied to test scores, no teachers will want to teach the slow kids who cannot test well.

But I'm sure the logic of this obvious fact will be lost in a sea of "those gosh darn unions, overpaid, lazy teachers, unions, lazy, lazy" blah blah blah. All posted by hard workers surfing the internet on company time.

[Nextrush]

Well up here we got homes around 150-200 thousand and I live in a 110-thousand dollar home and have to work two custodial jobs over 60 hours a week to stay here. I don't even make 40-thousand doing that.

This standardized test opposition is led by the National Education Association that doesn't want its members held accountable. I realize that parents make a big difference and that no matter what a teacher does (think home schooling here) the parents are key in children's success in school.

One of my jobs is a government job and I would gladly take some sort of pay freeze to help taxpayers. The taxing and spending has to stop. Over 60 percent of school budgets here go to salaries and benefits. Government is too big and too bloated. Its not just administration that's getting a good deal. You could be starting at Wal-Mart for 15-20 thousand a year, you know.

The National Education Association is the enemy and they hate No Child Left Behind because it forces their members to teach about reading and writing instead of making Jay Bennish speeches. Are you aware of all the political correctness in education? Does that bother you?

[Born Conservative]

If you have asked to be added to this list, and haven’t been receiving the pings, please let me know. I’ve had a problem with my file synchronization between my home and work computer, and apparently have lost some names on the list. I think I have the problem fixed, and will gladly re-add your name.

[bill1952]

Do you live in Florida, summer?

There is a mechanism in place there that prevents exactly that.

And NObody has railed against it more than the teachers have.

Guess why? Its called the FCATS and the teachers have nothing to say about it!

Wait until we have Vouchers on the ballot this year!
You ain't aheard no nothing wailing like the wailing you will hear then from teachers and school officials! :)

[bill1952]

That neighborhood and those families were educated in the same Government run centers that are teaching children now.
They are the products of that system.

How could they be any different?

[I_like_good_things_too]

It seems like it would be more reasonable for them to base bonuses on improvements in scores. Also, I get a tad tired of seeing the repetition of how the testing's "not fair". Just like all evaluations in life, starting with school and continuing with work in the free sector, it's rarely a fair, apples to apples world.

[bill1952]

Do teachers not in higher education have tenure privileges? BTW, thank you for this post.

[summer]

Before an individual selects their life calling, they need to research matters such as salary and benefits.

Yes, true -- but sometimes people change careers. Thanks for your post. And, God bless your son for serving in the army!

[summer]

He was willing to continue with teaching, but teaching in a really bad school was too much for him. He did not like following orders to socially promote functionally illiterate kids.

That is an important point you mention. I was thinking more about E Comp today, and I realized: maybe it is the flip side of what we will have to do if we really want to eliminate social promotion. (BTW, in FL, it is now illegal to socially promote in 3rd grade.)

However, if kids do not improve in every grade, and we eliminate social promotion (which I think should be eliminated in every grade), then, we are stuck with kids graduating high school at the age of 21-25 in some cases. Believe it or not, some students now have already been left back 2 or 3 times by the time they get to 4th grade. So, kids have to improve, and maybe E Comp or a plan like it really is necessary to ensure that we finlly get rid of social promotion, which I think is a terrible thing. Yet, there is nothing so great about having students in high school in their 20's either. So, something's got to give.

[summer]

Teacher's salaries are low, but so are government workers like Police and Firemen

And, that's true, too.

[summer]

PS Gov Bush's foundation would like to know your opinion on E Comp. See my post #65. Thanks!

[SoftballMominVA]

I'm in the NoVa area--in one of the outer burbs--and you are right about the schools here. We are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the madness that has gripped some schools has thankfully not landed. I think it helps that VA is a right-to-work state and the unions here are weak. In fact, there are more teachers in my school in an association that is conservative in nature than the NEA.