Giant immigration bill seeks to double H1-B visas

Hindustan Times ^ | March 14, 2006

[Serenissima Venezia]

Thanks for the information on the H-1B visas. In these threads, I see a lot of arguing back and forth but few facts and didn't really know what these visas were about.

Personally, living in S. Cal, I'm a lot more worried about all the uneducated illegal aliens streaming across the border than I am the educated, legal immigrants that we can keep track of - and kick out if need be.

[stylin19a]

I'm interested in your thoughts.

if they will radiclaly change the socio-political nature of the US.

What does mean ? What does this entail ?

Let's say we can put the genie back in the bottle and absolutley are able to shutdown the borders. Nobody in.

We go back to Pre LBJ\Ted Kennedy immigration where numbers\percentages are assigned to countries and rigidly controlled\enforced.

Now what ?

or are you thinking something else ?

[stylin19a]

Thank you

All of you who believe in the principles pf free market should tell the government to stay out of it because that what's wrong.

Amen to that.

[doc30]

Blasphemy! Pay them $1 million a year to start and the kids will gain interest!

But then potential NBA stars and future players in American Idol will leave their critical positions and enter R&D. We'll need to import athletes and performers because American kids won't want to do those jobs!

[RFT1]

That is what I am exactly thinking, pre 1965 immigration levels. Let the US have time to assimilate the immigrants that are here, and enforcethe laws rigidly so any employer who even tries to hire illegals will find it is not worth their while, while instead of US corps getting an easy way out with H1-B visas, have these corps do what they used to do before easy immigration, and have them train their employees.

[Decepticon]

Where are you at and what are you paying per hr .

Stylin19a has hit on a important topic. If you were building a house now, like I am, you would realize that framers, masons, dry wallers, electricians, plumbers, roofers etc. are a premium, many local builders have sent all of their teams to the south for government/insurance funded rebuilding. I am paying $8 a square foot for rock, the job will take one day a will cost about $3600....they should be able to get to me in the next 6-8 weeks, yes there is a list. Yes, the two workers are Mexican, they're considered skilled and pull in $16 an hour, the English speaking owner, after materials, pockets the rest. I haven't seen a single white American youth do these jobs, they're all at mcdonalds making minimum wage.

[doc30]

That's my main point. It is even more justified when you take into considerqation that roughly half of the graduate students in science and engineering are foreign students. It is in the U.S.'s best strategic interests to keep those graduates here rather then have them return to potentially rival countries with their newly gained expertise and leave the U.S. with a deficit in brain power.

[Feldkurat_Katz]

I don't believe that a physicist/engineer/mathematician with a PhD would make $40K a year.

Frankly, it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not.

From Stanford Postdoc Survey

"$35,709 Average starting gross annual salary / stipend
$40,398 Average current gross annual salary / stipend (all PDs)"

It's even worse than I thought - they start at $36k and reach $40k later.

[Decepticon]

It's even worse than I thought - they start at $36k and reach $40k later.

Ug. $33,000 starters for new hires in the gas fields of Oklahoma, if you have experience double that......any Americans up for manual labor yet? Most of the takers are Mexican.....bilingual will get you more.

[thoughtomator]

In the IT sector H1-Bs are used pretty much exclusively to depress the wages of US workers. The US workers are available, and have the skills, at a fair US market price. In this sector the H1-B is an easy out to pay less than the market rate for those skills, putting the lower-priced labor in direct competition with US labor.

[Serenissima Venezia]

This isn't a nation-wide survey, nor does it even pertain to math/engineering/physics degrees - which is what the discussion was about.

I can believe that biologists, chemists, and physiologists with a PhD don't make much - because those with a BS in those areas don't make much on average. ($25-30K joboutlook.com again). The survey you posted is weighted heavily in those 3 areas. How about finding a nationwide survey that breaks down the salaries of PhD's according to field? You are finding obscure irrelevant data from a small cross-section and posting it as if it means something.

[Feldkurat_Katz]

Ug. $33,000 starters for new hires in the gas fields of Oklahoma

Most postdocs are also immigrants, though not from Mexico and they are not illegal although their visas are temporary ones. I think they could make more in the private sector, but their visas allow academic employment only.

[Feldkurat_Katz]

This isn't a nation-wide survey

Quit complaining and post a link to a national one. It's not as if Stanford is famous for being stingy - quite the opposite.

[Decepticon]

I think they could make more in the private sector, but their visas allow academic employment only.

My point (and I'm living it) is that you can make more money, quicker, without government loans for education in a year than most "educated" Americans can conceive. You'll have to sweat, something most academia won't even consider. I have a new recruitment slogan for the high schoolers...."sweat equals money, college equals bills". I realize kids won't get their extra 4 years of indoctrination and beer drinkin' and tail chasing in but.....it is an option. Or they can whine about cheaper import engineers and doctors later......sheesh what the heck has happened to our youth?

[Dat Mon]

Heres some more thoughts of mine on where there is all headed...and why...

First off, the notion of the nation-state. If you hold with this concept (and many leftists, nihilists, AND extreme libertarians have never, IMO, reconciled themselves with the notion of a nation-state), you believe that an individuals presence in a host country, unless that individual happens to be either a native born or a naturalized citizen, is at the pleasure of the host countries government.

Therefore, all foreign guest labor or H1b labor is here because the fed government, being an agent duly charged as per the Constitution, with regulatory duties...allows it. The aforementioned groups don't even concede this point.

I do believe, that some, perhaps well intentioned 'powers that be', have made a calculated, strategic decision, in regards to our current and would be allies (there are many others who are not so well intentioned...they promote national policies based on a global progressive Third Way political agenda, or due only to self interest).

In return for (in theory), strategic partnership, foreign policy cooperation, and to promote the growth of a democratic free market system in the selected countries, the Fed Government will, in effect, trade US jobs and selected US occupations with these countries.

With Mexico, and other South and Central American countries...its the jobs at the lower end of the wage scale.

For more developed countries, principally India...its jobs at the high end of the wage scale...in particular...engineering.

India has itself, IMO, made a national policy decision, as part of its quasi transitional or managed government economy...to position itself so as to have a future Comparative Advantage for these high skilled high wage jobs. India's goal is not 'win-win', its to capture market share in a growing world competitive market...i.e...its that which promotes its long term NATIONAL SELF-INTEREST.

People in this country who stand to benefit (at least short term) from this LABOR ARBITRAGE policy...are all those (as I mentioned above) whose jobs are largely immune to it...plus all those who have accumulated enough assets to live comfortably without labor income, or those retirees who already live on portfolios, and /or pensions, and /or SS.
Long term...I do believe that the nation as a whole...will suffer for this labor policy, both economically, politically..and more significantly...MILITARILY.

[Decepticon]

With Mexico, and other South and Central American countries...its the jobs at the lower end of the wage scale

The day of Mexicans working for $2.00 an hour is long gone. If you want immigrant labor to work now, double the minimum wage, if you're lucky. Lower end of the wage scale? FRiend, I consider $30,000-60,000 per year, tax free, good money. So do the Mexicans.....that's why we're knee deep in mexicans in every manual labor market in the US.

The sad truth is, jobs requiring manual labor have already gone to South and Central American countries.....now the same logic is being applied to the "high paying, academia jobs"....what a surprise. The college boys haven't minded South and Central American immigrants minding their children, tending gardens nor fixing their roofs....yet H1B immigrants scares them stupid....and it should..after all we're only worth the the market allows...LOL.

[mysterio]

No, I didn't say any of that. I said it's stupid to bring in outsiders to do our best jobs. And I said that Bush is the king of big government socialism.

Care to toss out another strawman?

[Paul Ross]

The flip side:
Every H1-B visa is an opportunity for an American business to bring a product to service to market at a lower cost with a better chance of success.

The flip of the flip side:

Every H1-B visa is an opportunity for a FOREIGN COUNTRY and its Businesses, State-Owned Enterprises etc. to 'bring a product to service to market...in the U.S...at a lower cost with a better chance of success...at putting the Americans out of business.

[Paul Ross]

By the time you get to great grand children, I think they get lazy.

Anti-american bigotry on display for all to see. And anti-historical crap at that. You know nothing of your American industrial and technology history.

[Decepticon]

Anti-american bigotry on display for all to see. And anti-historical crap at that. You know nothing of your American industrial and technology history.

You're thinking in the wrong mind set my FRiend. I see 20 commercials a day about the NEED for high school students to attend college...."the Average college graduate earns 100 times what non-skilled labor can make in a lifetime"...

I can piece part this all day, but I'll say that a welder working on high pressure gas pipelines will make more money than your average engineer all day long...don't even get me into pipe fitting and reactor work. Send your kid to trade school if you want to see instant results.....