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To: Ronin

Man you have a really short view of history. Does it stop for you at about 50 years ago? Military advancement is as old as civilization and even older than that.

The Chiense were the world's technological leader 1000 years ago and have the brains to get back there at some point in the not-too-distant future.

There is no immediate threat from China, but the reality is that an aircraft carrier has didly squat to do with defending a coastline. It is meant purely and simply for projecting power far away from that coastline.

It also requires a massive investment and integration of naval power. One doesn't just build an aircraft carrier, one builds a carrier group. If this happens, it is the first step in China beginning to flex its international military muscle.

If it uses that muscle to assist America in policing the world, great. If it uses it to protect rogue regimes and interfere with the the global order that is not so good.

The Chinese are neither reckless nor impatient. They see America as just another empire that will eventually fade away. When you have 5000 years of history, 230 looks like blink of an eye.


4 posted on 03/14/2006 1:52:17 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (God is such a good idea that if He didn't exist we would have to invent Him)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit; Ronin

<< The Chiense (sic) were the world's technological leader 1000 years ago ... >>

Rubbish. They NEVER were.

You've been reading way too much of the absolutely cut from whole cloth "history" delusionally fantasized by Peking's present pack of self-annointed, self-appointed and self-perpetuating psychopaths and predators and its professional prevaricators.


12 posted on 03/14/2006 2:23:19 AM PST by Brian Allen (How arrogant are we to believe our career political-power-lusting lumpen somehow superior to theirs?)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
When you have 5000 years of history, 230 looks like blink of an eye.

Maybe. However, China doesn't have 5000 years of history. Or rather, their 5000 years of history is no better or worse than the 5000 years of history in Europe, India or the Middle East or even the Americas.

Just because there are people living there today and there were people living there 5000 years ago means nothing. What matters is how they are governed, for the amount of freedom that a people have is directly proportional to their prosperity.

So, what part of that 5000 years are you talking about? The part where "China" was a bunch of seperate states, each ruled by a warlord? Or the part where the Mongols came riding down, killed off the nobility and set themselves up as emperors? Or one of the many failed dynastic regimes that inevitably corrupted themselves out of existence?

You might as well say that Mexico has 5000 years of history because the Toltecs, Aztecs and Presidente Fox all live in the same area. Or call Illinois the center of the earth, because those mounds out in Cahokia and Governor Blagojevich are all part of the same culture.

The current incarnation of the government in what is today a single, large country called China is only about 60 years old.

They've yet to produce anything interesting or innovative. Their tanks, planes and ships are all Russian designed or built. Their nuclear arsenal and space program is all American (Thanks Bill!) designed.

China was once a great power, an intellectual incubator, a military giant.

Now they are just another failed Communist regime that has finally resorted to a pseudo-capitalist system in order to continue to finance their failed communist policies.

Think of it as a financial glasnost, but leaving the thugs in charge of the police apparatus.

So, let them crow that they'll be building a carrier fleet. It's not like they can actually do it. The best they'll be able to manage is buying a real carrier from someone else and maybe building a few ASW-size carriers.

Our sub drivers and naval aviation types love the idea.

As many a sub driver or naval aviation type had remarked about the Admiral Gorshkov, Kiev, Minsk, Novorossiysk and Kuznetsov...

"There's a Silver Star that hasn't been awarded yet."

17 posted on 03/14/2006 2:54:46 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
One doesn't just build an aircraft carrier, one builds a carrier group.

Actually, they'd have to build 3 carrier groups if they wanted to have one available constantly. Pretty darn expensive. At best (worst), that doesn't look to be happening before 2020 or so.

24 posted on 03/14/2006 3:30:53 AM PST by glorgau
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

It's like the Germans building battleships.


63 posted on 03/14/2006 12:40:02 PM PST by Dead Dog (il)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

""The Chiense were the world's technological leader 1000 years ago and have the brains to get back there at some point in the not-too-distant future.""


Not so long as they ignore intellectual property rights. There is no incentive in China to invent anything, as it will be instantly stolen and pirated....in the longer term, more than 50 years, India will be a stronger power than China


75 posted on 03/14/2006 4:37:19 PM PST by georgia2006
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