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Old Europe Fades Away
TCS Daily ^ | 3/9/2006 | James Ringo

Posted on 03/12/2006 10:21:10 PM PST by MinorityRepublican

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To: NewJerseyJoe

Bttt


41 posted on 03/13/2006 6:30:18 AM PST by MinorityRepublican (everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
> The proportion of childless academic women is around 40% here in Germany.

Maybe they should be sent to China. There's a generation of about 100 million Chinese men who will never 'have' a woman -- maybe these European women, barren (whether by nature or by 'choice'), can fill a useful role over in China.....

> To me it is a paradoxon that this development never was that grave in America. Although you have also less kids/woman since the apperance of the birth-control-pill there is still a stable quotient over 2 kids/woman.

We have exactly the same problem in America. The only reason why our ratio is still about 2 or higher is because of the unchecked illegal invaders from south of our border. (And no, I do not call them "immigrants." ) Their high birth rates are offsetting the decline.

Unfortunately for a generation of 45 million American babies, their fate was never to see the light of day, as their lives were torn apart in the darkness of the womb. However, their sacrifice appears not to have been in vain. Even liberals are now starting to acknowledge the 'Roe Effect' -- that is, people with loose sexual mores and non-traditional ideas about family are not reproducing; conservative people are the ones still having big families. And conservative parents pass on their values to their children.

42 posted on 03/13/2006 6:37:13 AM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: Atlantic Bridge
Your comments are very interesting. The US is fortunate not to have suffered the same amount of secularization as has old Europe. One reason could be population density. In experiments on rat populations - the higher density of rats living in a cage - the more likely they ewre to chew off their own tails.

The wide open unpopulated areas of North America require more individual efforts from the average guy in the struggle for survival. Self-reliance is a necessity in the US more so than in old Europe.

43 posted on 03/13/2006 6:46:28 AM PST by i.l.e. (Tagline - this space for sale....)
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To: MinorityRepublican

He man, no country is dying. They are going to be reborn!
Who needs boring european culture anyway? Im dutch, do you think we are walking on wooden shoes anno 2006?

Culture changes, like nature.


44 posted on 03/13/2006 6:49:20 AM PST by S0122017
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To: MinorityRepublican
Not to fret!

Muslims are reproducing like rabbits. They'll take care of that short fall and MORE! They'll kill those who don't agree with them.
45 posted on 03/13/2006 6:52:30 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: moatilliatta
I've never understood the obsession with European birthrates on here. The EU has one and a half times the population of the US in less than two-thirds of the area, and with a lot less natural resources. Where do you expect us to put all these extra people you think we should be producing?

Us europeans can all move to America where we are going to take all their jobs ;) Seriously though, holland is officially the second most dense populated country on the face of the earth. Excuse us for not reproducing like bunnies and add to our misery.
46 posted on 03/13/2006 6:53:33 AM PST by S0122017
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To: MinorityRepublican

I suppose it's too late to ask for a refund on all that Marshall Plan
money we sent them?


47 posted on 03/13/2006 6:54:44 AM PST by VOA
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To: MinorityRepublican; Mr. Silverback
The biggest cause of this demographic problem, after birth control, is the educational model that feeds our technical world. It takes eighteen years to get through primary school, four more through college, three more in graduate school, and then five or more to start a career, get married and settle into an adequate home.

By that time the educated parent is thirty-two. Her egg fertility has dropped in half. She will have a far higher incidence of birth defects. She will only have time for two, or at most three kids at a rational spacing. The only other option is to allow uneducated people to raise all the kids or import and educate new citizens. It's a recipe for demographic disaster.

This is why my home-educated kids were doing college level work before they became teenagers. Compressing the k-12 curriculum in math and history so that they could skip high school for college level technical and writing courses will have them so far ahead that they'll have time for a life that includes children.

We have a choice: an educated population of child-bearers on an advanced curve, a permanent underclass of breeders, or importing our future workers. It's time we faced reality.

48 posted on 03/13/2006 7:01:03 AM PST by Carry_Okie (Free people, driven to create, will eventually produce a product, with or without buckets of money.)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
See #48.
49 posted on 03/13/2006 7:03:03 AM PST by Carry_Okie (Free people, driven to create, will eventually produce a product, with or without buckets of money.)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
"The changed moral conditions made it easy in western Europe to live with girlfriends without being married. Nobody cares about the sexual behavoiur of others as long as no one has to deal with material loss or damage."

Money and material things are the gods of today.

Too bad a stunning mansion won't say, "I love you." Or give you a hug on a horrific day at work.

Yes, kids are a challenge but every now and then those challenging moments melt away when they look you in the eye and tell you, with all sincerity, that they love you or give you a hug. That's priceless and makes it all worthwhile.
50 posted on 03/13/2006 7:05:57 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: son of caesar

YOu might just have to cook your won snails!

Honestly, with all that's going on ... you worry about who will cook your snails!


51 posted on 03/13/2006 7:07:08 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: son of caesar

You might just have to cook your own snails!

Honestly, with all that's going on ... you worry about who will cook your snails!


52 posted on 03/13/2006 7:07:26 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: MinorityRepublican
The shrinkage of Europe is deceptive because it is gradual. It could, of course, go on like this for a century

I doubt it. If it goes on for a quarter century it will be a miracle.

I predict the Muslims will overplay their hand and strike too early, as they are wont to do in France. Then it will be either outright civil war or quick surrender to Dhimmi status by the natives. I predict the former. It will make the French-Algerian War look like a picnic.

53 posted on 03/13/2006 7:13:01 AM PST by Gritty (Five years after 9/11, it's astonishing how little we still know about the West's Muslims-Mark Steyn)
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To: Carry_Okie
The only other option is to allow uneducated people to raise all the kids or import and educate new citizens. It's a recipe for demographic disaster. This is why my home-educated kids were doing college level work before they became teenagers. Compressing the k-12 curriculum in math and history so that they could skip high school for college level technical and writing courses will have them so far ahead that they'll have time for a life that includes children.

Home-schooling is stictly illegal in Europe since our authorities doubt the abillity of ordinary parents to ecucate their kids themselves. We do not have to discuss their stance here since I feel it as a immense lack of freedom. But who asks me??! :-)

Nevertheless I also saw the problem with public schools and their inefficiency. Therefore my three boys are going into a private catholic school that is owned by the Jesuites. As a flanking measure they get private music lessons from some private teachers (univercity-students) that I hired and I help them each day with their homework and questions. This works quite good for us.

The German schooling system is much more differentiated than the American one. Our kids go into different schools from the 5th grade on. That is mainly a problem for those who are weak since they all are put into the "Hauptschule" (9 years) which is also called among parents the "Restschule" (Scrapschool). The others who go on the "Realschule" (10 years) or the (top) Gymnasium (12 or 13 years) recieve a satisfying education although much could be improved there too. Recent studies showed that the German system discriminates espechially those who are unprivileged and poor. Kids from poorer families have much less chances to study than those who have already parents that studied and end on a scrapschool.

This is one of the challenges we have to solve in Germany and Europe as a whole soon. I believe that it will be nessecary to educate all capable kids and not just those who already have access to education through their families. This will help the public much more than all other crazy welfare programs we have over here.

54 posted on 03/13/2006 7:45:05 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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To: MinorityRepublican
If you compare Europeans to non-Hispanic white Americans, can you see any significant difference?

The real reason US birth rates are not European lite is because Hispanic women (which are often called white) are producing babies at a generous rate, even at a larger rate than their Mexican cousins still living in Mexico.

Europe is shrinking, and America is browning.

55 posted on 03/13/2006 7:48:51 AM PST by george wythe
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To: All

The late great Pope JP II hit it on the head, addressing the problems with the culture of death.

The post-Christian birthrate in Europe is compounded by the focus on:

1. Individualism
2. Abortion
3. Homosexuality
4. Euthenasia


56 posted on 03/13/2006 7:53:21 AM PST by CitadelArmyJag ("Tolerance is the virtue of the man with no convictions" G. K. Chesterton)
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To: george wythe
Europe is shrinking, and America is browning.

Old Europe is getting more Russian and Polish since we have a big flow of immigration from there. The so called "Aussiedler" (Russians, Romanians and Poles with German heritage) were a much bigger immigration group into western Europe recently than Turkish (muslim) immigration, that reached its climax in the beginning 70ties. Only very few Turks still immigrate to Germany - mainly through marriages. The girls from Turkish families that grew up in Germany are not submissive enough for muslim men anymore. ;-) Therefore some Turks import their Brides from Anatolia to Germany through "arranged marriages" and try to lock them away from society. This triggered recently a broad discussion in Germany if such immigrations should be banned or not since it is a form of human trafficking.

A real funny irony of history (Hitler is probably rotating in his grave): In the meantime more Jews (from Russia) immigrate to Germany than to Israel.

57 posted on 03/13/2006 8:30:05 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Technology to have kids?

In high school all it took was a bottle of Boones farm and a dried out protector. Many freinds were young parents (1970s).


58 posted on 03/13/2006 8:35:53 AM PST by truemiester (If the U.S. should fail, a veil of darkness will come over the Earth for a thousand years)
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To: S0122017

do you think we are walking on wooden shoes anno 2006?

No waaay, dude.

59 posted on 03/13/2006 8:45:41 AM PST by oyez (Appeasement is insanity)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
The total breakdown of public education is both necessary and inevitable. When the finest lectures in the world and their teaching assignments can be simply downloaded, with online assistants to grade work and answer questions, WHY do we need huge institutions manned by an expensive bureaucracy? The old industrial paradigm is both destructive and unaffordable.
60 posted on 03/13/2006 8:57:00 AM PST by Carry_Okie (Free people, driven to create, will eventually produce a product, with or without buckets of money.)
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