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To: randita
This is an encouraging sign.

Indeed! We can only pray that it catches on. Sadly, I know several families with young children who have turned away from God for all the reasons cited above. Their children have never been baptized. When I asked one dad why he would deny his daughter this gift that had been given him, he said he would leave it up to his daughter to pick a religion when she is older. This is the tragic consequence of secularism. Oftentimes, those raised without any religious foundation, are unable to choose one later in life.

5 posted on 03/12/2006 6:07:53 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

When you don't bring a child up in the faith, you have already made the choice for them.


6 posted on 03/12/2006 6:12:40 AM PST by randita
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To: NYer
My follow-up question to the dad you mentioned would be, "How do you expect her to learn about it if you don't teach her, if you don't expose her to church/faith, or, at least, allow someone else to teach her?"

Not to decide is to decide. This parent, and others like him, have made the decision for their children by their inaction and lack of parental leadership.

11 posted on 03/12/2006 8:26:50 AM PST by Prov3456
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To: NYer

As someone who attended (briefly) Thomas Aquinas College and whose best friend is a graduate (after getting a business degree from a prestigious business school and leading an empty life of a money-grubbing stock-broker), I can tell you that part of the reason is that the overwhelming majority of Christians are simply incapable of arguing or debating the faith with non-believers (though not graduates of TAC!).

They lack the scientific and cultural knowledge to actually understand the basis for unbelief and to attempt to counter it.

Non-believers find Christianity to be basically "unscientific", "old-fashioned", "distasteful" and led by people who, frankly, would not be much fun at a dinner party. Add to this the real problem of self-proclaimed (or ordained) "leaders" who use Christianity for their own secular purposes (the Bakers, pedophile priests, "get rich quick by believing in Jesus" scammers, etc) and you have your work cut out for you.

What definitely WON'T work in any discussion with a non-believer is the phrase "because it says so in the Bible". This extends to any pseudo-arguments against current scientific "theories". (Even the Catholic Church has finally learned from the Galileo debacle that it is more damaging to oppose a scientific theory simply because it is contrary to current Church doctrine than it is to withhold opinion on the subject). The current "intelligent design" pseudo-debate falls here. Christians should avoid commenting on the truth or falsity of current scientific theories and take the long view that God could have chosen any number of different ways of affecting the same outcome.

Morality and immorality: non-believers don't believe in morality if morality is defined by "sinfulness". They don't believe in "sin". They do, however, give lip-service to the concept of "guilt" (as in collective guilt for slavery, racism, Western Imperialism, etc). They are undeterred by (and find "distasteful") arguments against certain types of personal behavior that involve "sin" or "morality". Better that Christians should argue "purpose" and "natural ends" when arguing against homosexuality, promiscuity and other "immoral" behaviors. Here, science is on our side: studies show that heterosexual couples engaging in normal sex derive the greatest benefits: reduced stress, greater feelings of well-being, etc.

New Age Christianity: Probably the greatest threat to Christianity comes not from the old fogeys, but from the various "new age" type denominations that believe that God is anything you want him to be. People who seek out religion do so because they want an alternative to the empty modernity that they see around them every day. To quote Hayak talking about British propaganda during the Second World War "Germans may look to the British to provide an alternative to Socialsim, but they will NEVER believe that the British are able to do Socialism BETTER than they themselves are". Same with the church and modernity: non-believers may look to the church for an alternative to modernity, but the will NEVER believe that the church can do modernity better than they. Look at the people who seek an alternative and you see people choosing Buddhism or even Islam. Why? Because they have remained unchanged for hundreds or thousands of years and DO provide an alternative to the ranging change of fashions that permeates everyday life.

Guitar masses, ecumenical services, wishy-washy new-age, save the planet for God non-sense does more harm to Christianity than does a firm stance saying: "This is where we've been for 2000 years, and this is where we're staying!" (Pope Jean-Paul II understood this hence his popularity.)

To sum up this long (sorry) rant, Christians can not simply take the easy way out and expect the Bible to provide all the answers to dealing with unbelievers. There is hard, very hard, intellectual work to be done.


13 posted on 03/12/2006 8:47:54 AM PST by Philistone (Turning lead into gold...)
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