God by the Numbers: Coincidence, random mutation not most likely explanations for some things

Math and theology have had a long and checkered relationship. The Babylonians and Mayans both associated numbers with God. In fact, both societies named their gods with numbers. The Mayans used 13 and the Babylonians used 60. In the Greek world, followers of Pythagoras prayed to the first 4 numbers and thought they were the creator. On the other hand, in the 18th century, the French mathematician Laplace told Napoleon he had no need of God even as a hypothesis, and in 1744, John Wesley confessed: "I am convinced, from many experiments, I could not study either mathematics, arithmetic, or algebra … without being a deist, if not an atheist."

No one knows what Wesley saw in 18th-century mathematics that he feared would lead him away from the God of the Bible, but today, many Christian mathematicians think that numbers point to God. Three numbers in particular suggest evidence for God's existence. They are 1/1010123, 10162, and eði.

Fine-tuning the universe The first recent number that points to God is 1 in 10 to the 10 to the 123. This number comes from astronomy. Oxford professor Roger Penrose discusses it in his book The Large, the Small, and the Human Mind. It derives from a formula by Jacob Beckenstein and Stephen Hawking and describes the chances of our universe being created at random. Penrose spoofs this view by picturing God throwing a dart at all the possible space-time continua and hitting the universe we inhabit. The Beckenstein-Hawking formula is too complicated to discuss here, but another approach to the same problem involves the fine-tuning of the universe and the existence of habitable planets.

The fine-tuning of the universe is shown in the precise strengths of four basic forces. Gravity is the best known of these forces and is the weakest,

####By a 4 to 1 margin, people who accept evolution believe that God directed it (theistic evolution).####

Then 80% of the people who believe in evolution actually believe in a form of intelligent design. Also, according to your poll, 40% of scientists agree with the statement, "Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation." Is that not a form of intelligent design?

"Problem with that poll is that it doesn't recgonize that there are different kinds of "creationists."

The labels were not on the original survey. All the people had were the questions, which do not name the category that the question was later included in. 49% of those polled agreed with evolution. 39% believed God directed it; 10% said God didn't direct it. 4 to 1.

"In fact, many of the leaders in the design movement are this. But a lot has changed since that poll was taken (1991). Kind of old data to be still throwing it around, don't you think?"

There are two polls in the post I made, one from 1991, the other from 1997. There is no statistically significant change. Do you have any evidence that these positions have changed greatly? Also, I have seen similar polls from 2001 that had almost the exact same numbers.

"P.S. Even the 1997 poll is out-of-date, plus it doesn't show differences between creationists either. None of this is surprising coming from USAToday."

Sure it does. Again, all the people had were the questions. One says that God made Man as is about 10,000 years ago, though the question DOESN'T say that the Earth itself was made in the last 10,000 years. That 44% includes both old and young earth creationists. The next two questions specifically say that Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. Neither young or old earth creationists believe this.

Again, there is no reason to think that these numbers have changed much since '97; they really didn't change at all from '91 to '97. They would have to change almost 180 degrees for my contention that most people who accept evolution in the USA are Christian to be wrong.

"Then 80% of the people who believe in evolution actually believe in a form of intelligent design."

They believe in theistic evolution. That ranges from God designed the universe to unfold through natural processes to be as we see it today, to God personally tinkers with the development of life at numerous stages. There is simply no way to know from this poll what the breakdown is.

Again, my contention was that most people who accept evolution in the USA are Christian. I am not claiming anything else, nor do I feel that polls are relevant in whether a theory is correct or not. Someone said that evolutionists are atheists, and I showed otherwise.

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