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To: John Valentine
Our government was NOT created "to protect individual rights"

Only if you're not an American.

Ensure mutual security?
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

"Free trade has made unwilling individuals sacrifice their livelihoods" is a socialist utterance If I ever heard one.

How old are you? I am curious to know as many people just getting out of high school seem to have no concept of the rights of individual liberty. Far from being socialist, the idea that ones individual liberty is protected by all goes back to our founding. However, the "free traders" have turned this upside down, saying individuals must give up their liberty so that whole sectors of our domestic economy can be traded away so that our USTR can broker trade agreements. Don't you see that this is wrong? A true American doesn't make individuals unwillingly pay a price for the whole society. That is the socialist concept and that is a mechanism of "free trade".

First it is beyond the power of the government to ensure, except by robbing other unwilling citizens to pay for work they otherwise would not buy.

So now the government must ensure that "free traders" can use slave labor via "free trade" agreements because that is the only labor they are willing to pay for? Because the US taxpayer through the federal government IS paying for this, and undermining their own future at the same time. Once you get a government guarantee to protect slave labor as a means of producing our goods, as in our "free trade" agreements with China, India, Viet Nam and so forth do, it is only a matter of time before slave labor becomes the norm once again in the United States.

Second, it is incompatible with the purposes of ensuring the GENERAL welfare,

So preserving individual rights DOESN'T promote the general welfare of the country? How so, if the government is predicated on protecting individual rights, how can denying them to our citizens promote the general welfare?

free trade, such as it exists (and it most assuredly does not) is entirey consistent with, and in furtherance of, the express purposes and intentions of our Constitution.

Really? Is that why our founders decided that TARIFFS were a constitutional way to fund the federal government? We all know that income tax was created so that the "free traders" could put the burden of paying for the government on wage earners and thus allowing them to eliminate constitutional funding of the government and give them leeway to enact "free trade" policies.

I am afraid everything you have said is wrong on all counts.
350 posted on 03/11/2006 8:45:39 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer

I am staggered by your complete lack of understanding regarding our form of government and the thrust of the two trends of political thought today - socialism and free enterprise.

You have everything turned on its head. You are truly enmired in a socialist mindset, yet somehow you have got this confused with conservatism, individual liberty, and limited government. It's staggering that all these confused idea could co-exist in the same mind. It must be wonderful to be you.

Just one point. NO government, not our government, not ANY government, from the beginning of time, was ever established to protect individual liberty. That idea is rubbish, complete and utter trash. It is an idea unworthy of the human mind. I can't imagine where you ever got such a totally bizarre notion.

Governments are established to secure peace and security, and economic stability. Individual liberty is always, of necessity, placed at risk by the establishment of government. That's why perfect individual liberty is epitomized by the LACK of government, not by its establishment.

Ever hear of anarchy?

Our government is particularly characterized by limits placed upon it by the founders to protect individual liberty (enumerated powers, for example) from the powers of government. But this is surely qualitiatively different from the reasons for its founding. The two are different, most profoundly so.

You are confusing the reasons for the establishment of our government and the structure and constraints upon it established in the mechanisms of its establishment.

Your errors of thought just go on compounding from there, without restraint or constraint, leading you to horrible errors of logic, leading you to insupportable conclusions, and to the deluded beleif that you are espousing conservative values when nothing could be further from the truth.


353 posted on 03/11/2006 9:11:28 PM PST by John Valentine
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