GALLUP POLLS: American Beliefs: Evolution vs. Bible's Explanation of Human Origins

Gallup / UPI ^ | March 8, 2006 | by Frank Newport /

[wintertime]

Only if the religious doctrine contradicts the evidence of science.

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Narby,

OK...so the government forces children into schools were evolution is taught.

The government us upholding and ***establishing*** supporting, promoting and upholding the religious traditions of Catholics and other of the similar persuasion and TRASHING and actively undermining the most cherished religious traditions of others. Gee! That's fair! ( sarc)

How can this be constitutional on any level?

Solution: Begin privatizing universal K-12 education! What is needed is complete separation of SCHOOL and state.

By the way,,,I am a supporter of evolution. HOWEVER,,,,I do not advocate forcing other citizens to pay for government to FORCE children into an environment where it is taught.

[narby]

You missed my point completely. Leave comprehending the universe to God.

No, I understand your point all too well. You don't want humans to "comprehend the universe", because that's God's job. Fine. If the rest of us lived according to your principles, you've just put science out of business, and the rest of us back in mud huts.

[scottdeus12]

Narby, take a vacation, dude. Geez.

[KarinG1]

I said I believe what the Bible says. I never said that the Bible includes everything, and in fact I believe much is omitted because everything would make for a very bulky tome. We Bible thumpers need somthing we can tote with us.

[wintertime]

While fundimentalist children go to school and are forced by their doctrine to make a choice whether to believe all that evidence and reject their faith, or close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears, and say LaLaLaLaLaLaLa.

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It is the right of families to do this! Is a human right found in the 17th Amendment. Courts have repeatedly upheld that it is PARENTS who are direct the upbringing of their children.

It is your right and mine under the First Amendment to mock their ignorance and to persuade them to think differently.

HOWEVER....it is UNCONSTITUIONAL on every level to FORCE children into government school prisons and indoctrinate with a curriculum that destroys their culture and most closely held religious traditions.

Evolution has little to do with the work that 99.99999999999% of people do every day. It is NOT of such great importance to any individual that government should threaten children with armed police, court, and foster action if they choose not to learn it or ASSOCIATE ( another First Amendment rights) with others learning it in government school.

The solution: Is to begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.

[narby]

The government us upholding and ***establishing*** supporting, promoting and upholding the religious traditions of Catholics

Actually, it's not a long Catholic tradition. They used to persecute scientists who disagreed with them. Read up on Galileo.

After that debacle, they wised up and basically said that science is science, and faith is faith, and they're not going to intrude on science's turf.

Christian fundamentalists however are rude, and are insisting on intruding on sciences turf and telling them what they must teach under that label.

By the way,,,I am a supporter of evolution.

Ok. So support it being taught as a necessary ingredient to any well educated young person. That some religions hold unscientific doctrines is not the fault of science, it is the fault of the religious doctrine.

No one is attempting to force evolution to be taught in sunday school. It is over the top for a few religious denominations to attempt to use FORCE to teach their faith in science class, and to FORCE me to pay for their religious teaching in my federal tax money that goes to every public school in the country.

[Coyoteman]

"There is no evidence in the western US of a global flood in the 4,000-5,000 years ago period. If there was, it would be easily seen in the archaeological sites we study."

there was, and it is. You just don't want to look. [Dr. Walt] Brown explains it all to you.

Archaeologists and many other specialists are crawling all over the western US, poking into things on a daily basis. If there was evidence of a global flood we would find it--we would have found it a century or two ago. Scientists found the evidence for the channeled scablands in eastern Washington, didn't they? And that would have been tiny compared to a global flood. The evidence is just not there. You are speaking from your belief, not scientific evidence.

And why do we, specialists in our own fields, need to have everything explained to us by a mechanical engineer [Dr. Walt Brown] who runs a creationist website?

[wintertime]

It never ceases to amaze me why some people insist on equating evolution with a religion. . . .

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Love Liberty,

It definitely has religious consequences for children.

So....why is the government in the business of ***establishing*** and promoting a school environment that promotes and supports the worldview ( with religious consequences ) of some while actively and deliberately undermining and trashing the most cherished family religious traditons of others?

Establish? Establish? hm,,,,???,,,Isn't there a First Amendment concerning government establishment?

It is emotional CHILD ABUSE to deliberately and actively destroy the trust of a child in their family and culture. ( Just ask the Navajo)

[narby]

Narby, take a vacation, dude. Geez.

Do you have an argument against my point? Am I wrong? Have I used strong language? Any four letter words?

[narby]

I believe much is omitted because everything would make for a very bulky tome. We Bible thumpers need somthing we can tote with us.

Many Christians believe that evolution was omitted from Genesis. A very logical conclusion since obviously a great many things must have been omitted, and it is really not relevant to the point of the Bible.

[narby]

It is the right of families to do this!

Yes. I agree. Any parent should be able to take their children out of public school and teach them as they will.

HOWEVER....it is UNCONSTITUIONAL on every level to FORCE children into government school prisons and indoctrinate with a curriculum that destroys their culture and most closely held religious traditions.

The court in Dover disagrees, and no one in the political world, Democrat or Republican is challenging that ruling publicly.

No one is forced into a public school. See above.

The solution: Is to begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.

There are already plenty of private schools. I suggest you send your children there.

[wintertime]

It is over the top for a few religious denominations to attempt to use FORCE to teach their faith in science class, and to FORCE me to pay for their religious teaching in my federal tax money that goes to every public school in the countr

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The solution is to begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.

If it is "over the top" for a few religious organization to FORCE the teaching of their faith in government schools, it is JUST AS MUCH "over the top" for government to FORCE these children into an environment where the curriculum and other children are undermining their faith.

If is wrong for government to establish faith, then it is just as wrong for government to actively destroy faith.

If you can not see this, then I conclude that you are among those who do not respect the religious beliefs of others and want to use government money and police force to actively destroy the religious culture of others.

[festus]

Wow -- I didn't realize what a tiny minority they are.

But man are they vocal and masters of the art of making themselves annoying.

[wintertime]

No one is forced into a public school. See above.

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This is very insensitive of you. Have you ever worked or lived in urban ghetto? Have you had the privilege of working and living with the rural poor?

"No one is forced into a public school"? This like Marie Antoinette saying, "Let them eat cake!"

Government schools are a price fixed monopoly. This creates a very hostile business climate for the creation of private schools. There are MANY areas of the country where private schools are scarce precisely for this reason.

It costs the taxpayers MORE that $10,883 per year, per government schooled K-12 child. Government K-12 education costs MORE than the military ( fed, local, and state combined). Then when taxes are so burdensome that both parents must work, the government then threatens them with armed police, court, and foster care action if they don't use the government school! SOME CHOICE! ( sarcasm)

Only government could devise and sustain something so fiendishly evil.

[wintertime]

Wow -- I didn't realize what a tiny minority they are.

But man are they vocal and masters of the art of making themselves annoying.
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The solution is to begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education. Then this tiny minority could choose its own private schools.

[festus]

You won't get any argument from me on that. Not one little bit.

[wintertime]

HOWEVER....it is UNCONSTITUIONAL on every level to FORCE children into government school prisons and indoctrinate with a curriculum that destroys their culture and most closely held religious traditions. ( wintertime)

The court in Dover disagrees, and no one in the political world, Democrat or Republican is challenging that ruling publicly. ( narby)
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I am challenging the government's constitutional right, on the federal, state, and local levels, to FORCE children into an environment that WILL undermine and possibly destroy their most cherished religious beliefs.

I am challenging the government's constitutional right to FORCE children to associate with other students whose worldview undermines their most cherished religious beliefs.

If Republicans and Democrats are not yet challenging the constitutionality of government to actively undermine a child's religion and to force them to associate with other hostile to their family's religious culture, then hopefully I can persuade them and others to do this.

The Freerepublic is a powerful forum. As my by-line states: "Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid."

By the way....The court did NOT rule on compulsory government attendance. The court was not asked to examine that issue. It was asked to rule on the scientific merit of ID. It did that, and given the evidence before the court it made a decision on THAT issue.

[discostu]

I'm not criticizing anybody's conclussions, I'm simply pointing out that functionally evolutionary science is young and therefore still probably rather error prone as young sciences are. Funny that you mention one science (plate tectonics) that's never managed to predict anything with any degree of accuracy ever, that's how it goes with young sciences.

I'm not refusing to accept anything, I think you're making assumptions about my position, assumptions which are 100% wrong. Allow me to quote part of my post you ignored:
I'm not attempting to poke holes. I believe in evolution as a concept.

Unified theory has nothing to do with anything I'm saying.

Actually there are competing hypothesis WITHIN evolution, which is a good thing, that's how science moves forward.

[discostu]

With that thinking there should be no science. Science, all science, every field and subfield that has ever and will ever exist, is about finding out HOW God did it in the most miniscule granularity possible. If people just blindly accepted that God did it and we can't comprehend it we'd have never figured out fire and electricity and the world you live in now wouldn't exist.

[TheBattman]

Great science - take an old monkey skull, give it a non-monkey name, and call it the missing link (or cave woman)....