You're definitely correct in saying it hard to know who to believe. It's everyones right to their opinions. I only spoke up on the issue because of some assumptions by some people that were clearly wrong. I believe the whole Waco thing was a travesty, possibly one of the biggest blunders our government has ever committed on it's own people.
Also, when these "journalists" make these investigative documentaries, they tend to err on the side of sensationalism and conspiracy.
This is from the Austin Chronicle see: here
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-07-07/pols_feature2.html
The Power of CS
Invented in 1928, CS is called a "super tear gas" because it works instantaneously, causing burning eyes, coughing, breathing difficulty, stinging skin, and vomiting. CS -- the common name for orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile -- is a fine white powder, about the consistency of talcum powder, and it must be spread with some type of dispersing agent. But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation.
Despite its potential drawbacks, CS had many of the advantages that the Army wanted. And in 1959, it adopted CS as its standard riot-control agent. But the Army has long been aware of its potential deadliness, particularly when used in enclosed spaces. One 1985 Army manual warns that CS "is not to be used in buildings, near hospitals, or in areas where lingering contamination could cause problems." In 1995, the Los Angeles Times quoted a spokesman for Federal Laboratories Inc., a company that makes CS gas, who explained that CS is designed for use in a large, open area. "If you were to shoot too much in a building or enclosed area, you could suffocate individuals," the spokesperson said.
The politics of CS were an ongoing irritant to the American military in Vietnam. In February of 1968, Gen. William Westmoreland, who commanded American troops in Vietnam, asked Washington for the authority to use CS during search and rescue missions in Laos. But diplomats in Washington were worried. Several stories had run in The New York Times that were critical of American use of "non-lethal gas" in Vietnam. And diplomats were worried because the Geneva Protocol of 1925 prohibited the use of "asphyxiating, poisonous, or other gases" during wartime. In a 1971 memo to President Richard Nixon, Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird discussed the implications of using CS gas during operations in North Vietnam and Cambodia. The State Department, he wrote, had "reservations" that were based on "anticipated charges of 'gas warfare'..."
Despite Laird's fears, CS gas became a favorite weapon of the American military in Vietnam. It was delivered in grenades against the Viet Cong in their underground tunnels. It was dropped from helicopters and airplanes in either powdered form or in small bomblets that dispersed the agent over a wide area. Some estimates put the amount of CS used during the Vietnam War at 15 million pounds.
After Vietnam, CS became popular among other militaries. Saddam Hussein's troops used it during Iraq's war against Iran. A few years later, after American troops routed Hussein's army, the UN Special Commission found that nearly half of Iraq's loaded chemical munitions contained not nerve agents or mustard gas, but CS. The compound was also used in the fighting in what was formerly Yugoslavia. In 1988, Amnesty International reported that medical personnel in Israel had cited tear gas as "the cause of or a contributory factor in the deaths of more than 40 Palestinians in the Occupied Territories." The report caused American manufacturers of CS to halt exports of the gas to Israel.
On Jan. 13, 1993, the United States and dozens of other countries signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, the most far-reaching treaty regarding prohibitions on the use of chemical weapons. The treaty bans the use of nerve agents, mustard gas, and other compounds, including tear gas, during wartime.
Three months and six days after the U.S. signed the convention, the FBI used CS on the Branch Davidians. end story
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The article seems to be pretty even handed on the gas issue. You can read the whole thing on the link if you care to.
I think we are going to agree on Waco being a travesty, and disagree that it was a blunder. I think it started out as a blunder and ended with the FBI cleaning up the mess by murdering the victims and destroying all evidence.
I doubt the BATF thugs went out that Sunday morning to kill Pastor Koresh or his congregation. But once the congregation defended itself, things went from bad to worse in a hurry. I do think the FBI intentionally murdered the congregation, burned and bulldozed the church, and lied about what happened.
Good post. I have not really looked into this very much at all. When it happened (very early in the Clinton presidency) it was one of the few decisions I agreed with him and Reno about. My take was simple, and maybe simplistic: David Koresh could have avoided every bit of this by giving up when the arrest warrant was served. The matter should have been fought in court. Koresh could never have won, and willingly endangered the others at the compound.
I can't speak definitively about what the government did in Waco. I can't believe that law enforcement would willingly do all of what they are accused of. Maybe at age 48 I remain naive.
It's not the biggest travesty, (that would be the bonus army of the 1930's) but it was one of the nastiest. We as American citizens must ensure that such a horrible act is never again allowed to happen on our soil, and as long as I am alive, I will endeavor to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
As for the argument was Koresh guilty or not, it doesn't matter. There is no reason, none at all that anyone can give that justifies what the Government did to those children. I am ashamed that I sat idly by and let that happen. I won't be so complacent again.
As a qualified armorer, I asked to examine the weapons recovered from the scene of Waco. I was denied flat out and shown photographs and X-rays instead. The weapons in the photographs were burned with an Oxy/Acet. torch. I recognized the burn pattern. None of the weapons had been in a fire like what happened at Mt. Carmichael. There was definitely something not right about the whole matter.
God help us all if we are so lazy to allow another Waco.
Mike