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To: justshutupandtakeit; 4CJ
Those states were never truly out of the Union, never acted as if they were and, in Rhode Island's case, wrote a letter begging not to be treated as a foreign nation.

As soon as they ratified the Constitution, they were out of the old "perpetual" Union.

So which Union are we talking about?

Can't be in both simultaneously -- States aren't quarks or neutrinos.

Your basic problem is, you just don't have an argument. The Constitution is the only Union worth talking about when you start to talk about 1860. And no, its Union did not predate the States, and no, there was no "mystery BS" about the Union: sign on the dotted line, you're in. Resign, you're out.

The Confederate States resigned from the Union by Acts of the People (with the exception of Arkansas, which might have had a problem legally, since they seceded by an act of the legislature), and those Acts of the People amended, modified, and abrogated their previous and symmetrical Acts of ratification.

The Constitution was an agreement among the States on paper. It wasn't a mystical document. It didn't command the States, and the Declaration of Independence didn't command the States to sign it. Nobody commanded the States to sign the Declaration of Independence or ratify the Constitution. It's just shills and intellectual three-card monte artists like you who go around telling us that States were nothing, States are nothing, yada yada yada, hear my voice and obey, I am Vigo!!

Next you're going to be telling us that the States didn't even have the right to ratify the Constitution, but only to submit.

520 posted on 03/16/2006 3:10:14 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Presumably you enjoy arguing with yourself and creating cute little philosophical puzzles without bearing on political realities. Since most of your expectoration has no bearing on my statements that is the only reason I can see for spewing them.

Maybe your confusion about these issues can be resolved by looking up the definition of "metamorphosis" it is especially relevant to organic processes such as the establishment and growth of Nations and their political evolution.

Those elements of the Nation which evolved a bit more slowly were not less organic parts of the Nation for that. Bringing the entire Union up to speed was not without some starts and stops. New York didn't have Senators appointed for the first Congress for example. But it was still part of the Union though not represented in the "states" portion of Congress.


531 posted on 03/16/2006 8:22:32 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
alco CORRECT!

free dixie,sw

554 posted on 03/17/2006 9:29:03 AM PST by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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