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To: Diamond

We have third-party references for the Greek guys. All we have are the Gospels for Jesus. We don't even have any Roman records of his existence, and the Romans kept track of everything -- especially folks who caused enough trouble to be crucified.


1,258 posted on 03/02/2006 1:09:53 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: Junior; Diamond
We have third-party references for the Greek guys. All we have are the Gospels for Jesus. We don't even have any Roman records of his existence, and the Romans kept track of everything -- especially folks who caused enough trouble to be crucified.

And we also take their more extraordinary claims with quite a load of salt. For instance no one believes that Romulus ascended to heaven to become a god as Livius wrote in his Ab Urbe Condita.

1,272 posted on 03/02/2006 1:39:13 PM PST by BMCDA (If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it,we would be so simple that we couldn't)
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To: Junior
the Romans kept track of everything

Ok, but apart from bookkeeping, database management, paid informers, espionage, and obsessive graphomania, what did the Romans ever do for us?

...One might make the more serious observation, that a wealth of Graeco-Roman records, literature and art failed to survive the purging zeal of some early Church fathers....

1,282 posted on 03/02/2006 2:01:03 PM PST by ToryHeartland
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To: Junior; BMCDA
We have third-party references for the Greek guys. All we have are the Gospels for Jesus. We don't even have any Roman records of his existence, and the Romans kept track of everything -- especially folks who caused enough trouble to be crucified.

To say that all we have are the Gospels for Jesus is false on its face. There are the other New Testament writings of Luke and Paul, etc, and other extra-Biblical sources. As for the Romans "keeping track of everything", you may as well say that Pontius Pilate didn't exist:

People frequently ask if any record has been preserved of the report which, it is presumed, Pontius Pilate, prefect of Judea, sent to Rome concerning the trial and execution of Jesus of Nazareth. The answer is none. But let it be added at once that no official record has been preserved of any report which Pontius Pilate, or any other Roman governor of Judea, sent to Rome about anything. And only rarely has an official report from any governor of any Roman province survived. They may have sent in their reports regularly, but for the most part these reports were ephemeral documents, and in due course they disappeared. "
F. F. Bruce
link

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You're not acutally asserting that Jesus did not exist, are you?

History, Archaeology and Jesus

Hard evidence from the ancient world dramatically supports the New Testament record on Jesus.

by Paul L. Maier

Mythical personalities are not involved in authentic episodes from the past. Nor do they leave hard evidence behind. In the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth, however, there are many points of contact between His record in the Gospels and the surrounding history of His times. Just as the New Testament is studded with authentic geographical locations, it is also full of genuine personalities who are well known from secular sources outside of the Bible record, including some that are even hostile to Christianity.

In some cases, the additional, non-Biblical information on these personalities is immense. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (A.D. 37—100), for example, supplies about a thousand times as much data on Herod the Great as does Matthew’s Gospel.

In other cases, the secular facts are crucial. The New Testament does not tell us what became of Jesus’ half-brother, James the Just of Jerusalem, the first bishop of the Christian church (Acts 15). Josephus, however, gives us the details of his being stoned to death by the Sanhedrin in A.D. 62.
[snip]

Cordially

1,438 posted on 03/03/2006 9:09:18 AM PST by Diamond
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