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To: AntiGuv
I guess I just don't 'get it', guv.. You admit to a "very strong personal view" that Neanderthals should be labeled a separate species. -- Why is this so important?

Could it be that what you call "the fringe motivations: racists who want a separate evolutionary lineage for each race and creationists who want to abolish any evidence of hominid speciation" -- are not fringe points at all, but your main issue?
You go on:

(And by no stretch am I assigning these motivations to even a majority of those who argue in favor of Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon admixture.
But they are a motivation for some. I did say "fringe"..)

Indeed you did; you call those interested in the origins of race a "fringe". I prefer to call the origins of race a central issue in human anthropology.
-- The Multiregional Model, as Milford Wolpoff presents, is a rational hypotheses, far from a fringe study. -- And I see a Neanderthal "admixture" as an important addition to Wolpoff's theories on racial origins.

We need to discuss 'race', not put it in a closet, seeing we're on the edge of a racial/religious world war.

144 posted on 02/26/2006 12:40:10 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine

My views are so strong because I think that the evidence is so contrary to the notion of Cro-Magnon/Neanderthal admixture. I am actually an agnostic when it comes to the question of Homo sapiens/Homo erectus admixture over in Asia. That is because I am unaware of such a strong arrangement of evidence contrary to that notion. In fact, I think it's quite plausible that it happened.

So no, I do not reject the notion of admixture automatically simply because I have a problem with the notion on some ideological grounds or whatever. I just think that in the case of Neanderthals the evidence is so glaring against. And riddle me this: if Europeans are descendents of Neanderthals, then why the heck do we have less prominent brow ridges and higher foreheads than other races??


147 posted on 02/26/2006 12:45:56 PM PST by AntiGuv
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To: tpaine

And might I add that I wouldn't have the slightest problem embracing the notion of Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon admixture if evidence to support it were presented. Show me the money! As I said before, "because they were there" just doesn't cut it for me.


148 posted on 02/26/2006 12:47:29 PM PST by AntiGuv
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To: tpaine

And now it really is my bedtime! (I keep erratic hours.) If there's anything more, I'll have to get to it later.


149 posted on 02/26/2006 12:48:21 PM PST by AntiGuv
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To: tpaine

PS. And very quickly, one reason that I'm less inclined to reject the posited admixture in Southeast Asia is because it would've happened at a far earlier stage of Homo sapiens development, and because the archaeological record of that milieu is far more fragmentary.


150 posted on 02/26/2006 12:52:10 PM PST by AntiGuv
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To: tpaine
Oh OK, just one more thing! I did not admit to a very strong personal view that Neanderthals should be labeled a separate species, I stated a very strong personal view that Neanderthals would be labeled a separate species if they were discovered today. Of course it is implicit that I would also say they should be labeled a separate species, but what I'm really saying is that I think the same standards should be applied equally.

In short, my point is that by typical standards of identifying and labelling species I very strongly believe that if Neanderthals were discovered today with all that we know of them they would be labeled a separate species. And my strong personal view, to be sure, is a cognitive view, not an emotional view. It is my assessment of how hominid species are distinguished and identified.

151 posted on 02/26/2006 12:55:55 PM PST by AntiGuv
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