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To: driveserve
It is as non-scientific as creationism. That both require a leap-of-faith (not to mention a leap in logic) proves that neither rise to the level of science.

Could you be more specific as to exactly what parts of Evolution you believe takes leaps of faith? Do you believe a species never changes to form other species? Or is it the theory of punctuated equilibrium vs. gradualism?

Evolution and evolutionists need to clearly state that it is the faith that God does not exist, that drives theirs.

HUH??? If this were true why would the Vatican numerous times state that current evolutionary theory is in line with the teachings of the Church? Why would the Vatican observatory be holding symposiums on Evolution if the theory is driven by Atheists? No offense but I think the Pope and the Vatican are much more in tune to what "atheist theory" is than you are.

170 posted on 02/23/2006 6:00:19 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
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To: trashcanbred
#170 "HUH??? If this were true why would the Vatican numerous times state that current evolutionary theory is in line with the teachings of the Church? Why would the Vatican observatory be holding symposiums on Evolution if the theory is driven by Atheists? No offense but I think the Pope and the Vatican are much more in tune to what "atheist theory" is than you are."
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Let me help you out with past history of the Catholic church. Unfortunately history repeats itself and not always in positive ways. There is a push to conform to the "world" however God teaches something else and by no means is this pressure limited to the Catholic churches. Many churches are falling away as prophesied.

Rom.12:2

[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This verse today, could NEVER be truer:

Matt.7:7[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Truth is NEVER determined by numbers! NEVER!

As I mentioned earlier, many churches are falling away as prophesied:

2Thes.2:3

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Also:

2Tim.4:3

[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Conforming those "itching ears" to something other than what the Bible states, is most unwise. You would think that churches would have learned their lesson from the Galileo situation - but no! They still want to believe that fallible man "knows it all better and is wiser" than God. It's deajavu all over again! In the Garden of Eden the forbidden fruit was eaten because they wanted to be as wise as God or wiser. Nothing has changed with believing in evolution. Adam and Eve disobeyed Him.. They too wanted to be as wise if not wiser than God. They rejected His wisdom in disobeying. just as others today, claim "belief" but ridicule His account siding with man because they really want to believe man is wiser than God.

Some of us put our faith in God rather than fallible mortals. God cannot lie. Mankind does lie. It's just the way it is.

Tit.1:2

[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Rom.3:4

[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

It is man that lies, not God. When it comes to the Bible and what He inspired others to write, what is written is true, ALL the time! What I often see is people claiming "I believe in Him ..." but for some reason, even though evolution has NOTHING in common with Christianity, they believe in evolution. You can't have it both ways. The order of evolution is all wrong compared to the Bible. God would never say "it was very good" to death and disease. Evolutionists claim people evolved from "apes" - by no stretch of the imagination, being "made in His image" do I consider God an "ape". This alone is a mockery of God and on and on it goes.

Let's look at Galileo for a moment. In July of 1609, Galileo Galileo encountered some stories that a "Dutchman" named Hans Lippershey, had invented a device that could magnify distant objects. Galileo became quite interested and built his own telescope. He used the scope to observe many things including the stars, moon, and planets. Because of his observations Galileo became convinced that the earth was actually moving. In 1633 Galileo was placed under house arrest by the Catholic church and secular authorities, for preaching and believing the heresy that the earth was round and our earth, orbits around the sun. The Catholic church saw that as a threat to some of their favorite dogmas, and by extension to their positions of power.

It makes one scratch their head, when as plain as the nose on your face, the Bible has ALWAYS stated the earth is round. I repeat, the Bible has ALWAYS stated this. ALWAYS! Translations and version vary on how they state it - round, circle and sphere as common translations of the Hebrew, however nowhere does the Bible state the earth is flat.

One can't help but wonder why the Catholic church was so up in arms over Galileo UNLESS it was teaching something other than what the Bible clearly states. Next, is the obvious question of WHY weren't they teaching what the Bible obviously states? The church is supposed to be teaching what the Bible states, right?

Let's take a peek over at Isaiah.

Isaiah 40:22

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Christians, that know the Bible, would NEVER be so foolish to teach a "flat" earth. Clearly, in the Bible it states otherwise - that is IF you bother to read it and don't have a less than honorable agenda.

Another favorite Scripture twist is this:

Revelation 7:1

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

It is a metaphor representing the cardinal directions of north, south, east and west. This "language of appearance" is till used today. Bible writers also used that.

Job, one of the OLDEST books of the Bible states this:

Job 26:7

7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Again, what was the Catholic church thinking when objecting to Galileo? Galileo only reinforced what the Bible stated LONG AGO and rather CLEARLY. The earth is round and suspended on nothing.

Frankly I don't care what church was preaching what. It is the Bible that is ALWAYS true regardless of what ANY mere fallible mortal teaches. In short, I take God's Word over man's word anytime!

There are other references to a round earth in Proverbs and Job however Isaiah and what I referenced in Job, should be sufficient to get the point.

Interestingly, Jeffrey Burton Russell a professor of history at the University of California in Santa Barbara, says in his book, Inventing the Flat Earth (written for the 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's journey to America in 1492) that through antiquity and up to the time of Columbus, "nearly unanimous scholarly opinion pronounced the earth spherical."

So did the Bible. SO again, the Catholic church should have EMBRACED Galileo not accused him of heresy or felt threatened - IF the Bible was their source of teachings. I can't emphasize enough that the earth being ROUND or SPHERE shaped has ALWAYS been in the Bible! Perhaps now you will better understand why Bible based Christians do not want to be aligned with other groups.

The bottom line is this - you are free to believe what ever you wish! God. Man. It's your choice. As you can see, throughout time, God and man are typically at ODDS and when that happens there are consequences.

181 posted on 02/23/2006 8:39:07 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: trashcanbred
Consider this issue in another way.


I don't know you or anything about you so let me do some assuming to make my point. For the sake of this example, I hypothetically assume that you are HAPPILY married and LOVE your spouse and your spouse is HAPPILY married to you and LOVES you - all without reservation, or so YOU claim.

Next, your spouse is away traveling for long periods of time. You claim to miss your spouse and LOVE your spouse and HAPPILY married but you NEVER read the letters your spouse sends to you. How can that be with all you claim? Instead you listen to gossip that is not true about your beloved spouse. These gossipers HATE what you have. They despise seeing you so happy and in love with your spouse. They WANT your allegiance so they do and say ANYTHING to terminate that loving, happy personal relationship.

Friend, those "letters" I refer to are books of the Bible. The Bible is like a series of love letters to YOU. He loves YOU. He wants YOU to be happy. To know Him is to read the Bible and believe what He says not what others say. Through reading the Bible and heeding what He says you will be happy, feel loved and blessed through this personal relationship. He wants YOU to be in heaven forever with Him, however He leaves that as a choice! Coerced love is NOT love, hence why we are to make that choice as individuals.

Don't miss HEAVEN for the WORLD!
183 posted on 02/23/2006 8:58:41 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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