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To: Join Or Die; Auntie Dem
The Mormon example really isn't a very good one.

The Mormons committed a number of crimes, especially once they were in Utah. They also tried to create a state church in Utah, which was clearly against the Constitution. This is what prompted US military intervention against them, and rightly so.
50 posted on 02/20/2006 8:11:54 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: JamesP81

Not to nitpick, but until the 14th amendment was ratified in 1868 and then incorporated to the states in later supreme court decisions, it would not have been unconstitutional to create a state church in Utah as the constitution was only a limit on federal power.

But I will admit that I am not aware of the actual events so it very well could have been justified for their actions, but I just can't swallow what some of these people posting here can so easily.


75 posted on 02/20/2006 8:18:47 AM PST by Join Or Die
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To: JamesP81
Oh please! What Federal crimes did they commit? The Army was not sent by Buchanan (called "Buchanan's blunder") to "keep an eye" on Mormons, but rather to find military ways to eliminate their leadership and the Church. One need only to read the presidential orders of the time to find the facts.

As for the "state church" argument, try and remember that the Mormons were the first settlers of any size in the whole Utah Territory. What other form of government could they possibly have elected except one that included a majority of Mormons? They elected a working legislature and responded to the chosen governor. Brigham Young was appointed Territorial Governor by the Feds. The Mormons were also pro-Federal Government, pro-national Constitution and anti-slavery even when the Feds sent an army against them.

197 posted on 02/20/2006 9:02:37 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: JamesP81
The Mormon example really isn't a very good one.

The Mormons committed a number of crimes, especially once they were in Utah. They also tried to create a state church in Utah, which was clearly against the Constitution. This is what prompted US military intervention against them, and rightly so.

Wrong on all counts. Your ancestors must have been the ones spreading those lies in the 1800's and you are bearing the family standard high 160+ years later.

The only crime the Mormons committed in Missouri was being against slavery. There was no state church in Utah--it wasn't even a state or U.S territory when the Mormons first went there (to escape your relative's bigotry) so it couldn't have been a U.S "crime" even if it happened.

What prompted military "supervision" was the reports of drunken, corrupt rapist federal judges who sent back false reports to Washington because the Mormons exposed their adulterous and scandalous behavior. (Imagine be told by a federal judge who was committing adultery and had 3 or 4 skanks on the side that YOU had to go to prison for having 2 wives)

489 posted on 02/20/2006 11:23:52 AM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: JamesP81

"The Mormons committed a number of crimes, especially once they were in Utah. ... This is what prompted US military intervention against them, and rightly so."

And so we take a wide brush and paint over the truth. I have been very uncomfortable with this thread. I have read what happens when religious freedoms are trampled. We have seen the inquisitions (oddly enough this was the Catholic sponsored governments persecuting Christians) and the expulsions (driving the Mormons west) and the troubles. But lets get out the wide brush and paint it all over with, 'They must have deserved it for something they did or would have done if they'd had the chance.'

Saying this doesn't make it true for the Mormons, the Catholics and Protestants, or the Muslims. The idea that we can keep America and make a religion illegal is insane and unworkable. This is like saying that we can bake some bread without cooking. If you come for the Muslims or the believers in Islam, the rest of us will know who is next. And unlike the people how waited while the Nazis destroyed Germany, we won’t wait for you to get to us.

If it is impossible for America to exist and for a religion to exist together, then America has already ceased to exist. We must find a better solution.


970 posted on 02/21/2006 7:19:53 PM PST by royhayward (The thought police are on their way!)
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