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To: Luis Gonzalez
So the Articles of Confederation was so perpetual that it was replaced by the Constitution. I don't follow you there.

12 states ratified the Constitution, Rhode Island held out until 1790. RI was not in the perpetual union during this time.

Adams on the right to secede: "Their right to secede was not contested. No unfriendly step to injure was taken;...the door was left open for them to return whenever the proud and wayward spirit of state sovereignty should give way to the attractions of clearer sighted self-interest and kindred sympathies."

356 posted on 02/24/2006 8:57:29 AM PST by stainlessbanner (Downhome Dixie)
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From Rhode Island's Ratification of the US Constitution:

Amendments.

I. The United States shall guaranty to each state its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Constitution expressly delegated to the United States.

III. That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness.

Equally as interesting is Providence threatened to seceed from Rhode Island and become it's own state.

361 posted on 02/24/2006 9:18:05 AM PST by stainlessbanner (Downhome Dixie)
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To: stainlessbanner
"So the Articles of Confederation was so perpetual that it was replaced by the Constitution. I don't follow you there."

That's because you are purposely misconstruing what I said. I did not say that the Articles of Confederation were perpetual, nothing is perpetual that can be changed by Amendment, what I said was that the Union created was perpetual, and that while the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation as the mode of government, the perpetuity of the Union remained unchanged.

Adams calls the spirit of State sovereignty which led to secession "wayward", and you call that approval of secession and a contradiction to Madison's words to Jefferson?

"It was generally agreed that the objects of the Union could not be secured by any system founded on the principle of a confederation of Sovereign States." -- James Madison

"...the door was left open for them to return whenever the proud and wayward spirit of state sovereignty should give way to the attractions of clearer sighted self-interest and kindred sympathies." -- John Adams

Madison said that the Constitutional Convention agreed that the Union could not be built on the notion of State sovereignty, and Adams called the notion of State sovereignty a "wayward spirit"...those two guys agreed on State sovereignty.

And neither thought much of it.

394 posted on 02/24/2006 12:27:50 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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