[fortheDeclaration]

Secession was not a right, a view shared by Andrew Jackson

What are rights are the rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, which the South, refusing to let slavery die, denied to 3 million people.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Secession was not a right, a view shared by Andrew Jackson What are rights are the rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, which the South, refusing to let slavery die, denied to 3 million people.

I agree with your second point but not your first (see the Declaration of Independence). The problem is that both were at issue at the same time. I tend to agree with Lincoln that the tragedy of the war, regardless of which side you were on, was somehow God's judgment on America for the sin of slavery.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Pinging you to post #32.

[Leatherneck_MT]

Point out then where it says the States (one and all) had no right to secede.

In fact, point it out in the constitution today.

Chapter and Verse.

It doesn't exist.

[Courdeleon02]

The real question is, was the war morally justified considering the massive loss of life and destruction of property in view of the fact that had the south been left alone slavery would have been abolished in due course. The question of the right of states to secede I believe also favors the southern view that yes they had a right to secede. States did not sacrifice their sovereignty at the time of the formation of the federal union. If you had a right to join you should have also the right to leave if this is determined by the democratic process.

[Polybius]

Secession was not a right, a view shared by Andrew Jackson What are rights are the rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, which the South, refusing to let slavery die, denied to 3 million people.

In other words, since secession is not mentioned in either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, it is your position that it was therefore not a right in 1860.

That dovetails perfectly into the Authoritarian Maxim -- WHATEVER IS NOT EXPLICITLY PERMITTED IS FORBIDDEN.

The now totally ignored Tenth Amendment, however, specifically states:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

It is undeniable that it was far better for the World that the United States of America stayed united in the 19th Century.

However, it would also have been far better if the issue had been decided through the rule of law in accordance to what the Constitution actually says than through the deaths of 620,000 Americans..........A total that, in comparison to populations, would today be the equivalent of approximately 5.8 million American deaths.

Now here is a future hypothetical question that IMHO recreates the mindset of the South in 1860:

Let us say that the Constitution of the European Union is ratified by all present members and that the E.U. Constitution is silent about the issue of secession. Let us say that, in 20 years, Britain is dissatisfied with the European Union and desires to revert to its prior status as a sovereign nation but Germany and France are dead set against that.

Does Britain have a right to secede from the European Union?

Do France and Germany have the right to keep Britain in the European Union by force of arms?