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To: Leatherneck_MT

Insurrection covers the issue. The Tenth does not justify nor legalize insurrection. As has been shown above the Union was designed to be and was called "perpetual" repeatedly and changing the form of the government of that Union did not change the perpetualness of that Union. Nor could insurrections.

Show me ONE word spoken about secession during the Convention. It was inconceivable to the Founders and you cannot show me ONE word which they spoke considering secession to be acceptable or constitutional. And given the growth of the Constitution out of the Articles there was no necessity to address the already addressed nature of the Union. For the Founders it was settled.

A constitution allowing secession would have been worthless and not even Jefferson supported such an idea. Not that he was in any way a Constitutional expert.

Plus you have the little problem that the states were the creation of the Continental Congress. None existed until it asked them to write state constitutions and form as states. Our common belief that we were all Americans pre-dated both the states and the Union. Creation of the Union and the Constitution was an act of the American People not states.


144 posted on 02/22/2006 11:28:44 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; derllak

Let's try this again

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

I'll even break it down for you.

The powers not Delegated to the United States by the Constitution (i.e. those powers that were not specifically GIVEN to the Federal Government)

Nor prohibited by it to the states, (i.e. the Constitution does not prevent a State from performing an act)

are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
(i.e. the states and or the people reserve these rights to themselves)

Where's your paragraph that says

"The Federal government has the right to force States to stay in the Union by force of arms"

hmm?


148 posted on 02/22/2006 11:35:03 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT (An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

"Plus you have the little problem that the states were the creation of the Continental Congress. None existed until it asked them to write state constitutions and form as states. Our common belief that we were all Americans pre-dated both the states and the Union. Creation of the Union and the Constitution was an act of the American People not states."

Wrong again, the states were here before the Constitution under the Articles of Confederation.


151 posted on 02/22/2006 11:38:37 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT (An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

>>>A constitution allowing secession would have been worthless and not even Jefferson supported such an idea.<<<

Jefferson did indeed believe secession to be a right. In an 1820 letter to Albert Gallatin regarding Missouri, there is this passage:

"For if Congress once goes out of the Constitution to arrogate a right of regulating the conditions of the inhabitants of the States, its majority may, and probably will next declare that the condition of all men within the US. shall be that of freedom, in which case all the whites South of the Patomak and Ohio must evacuate their States; and most fortunate those who can do it first. And so far this crisis seems to be advancing. The Missouri constitution is recently rejected by the House of Representatives. What will be their next step is yet to be seen. If accepted on the condition that Missouri shall expunge from it the prohibition of free people of colour from emigration to their state, it will be expunged, and all will be quieted until the advance of some new state shall present the question again. If rejected unconditionally, Missouri assumes independent self-government, and Congress, after pouting awhile, must recieve them on the footing of the original states. Should the Representative propose force, 1. the Senate will not concur. 2. were they to concur, there would be a secession of the members South of the line, & probably of the three North Western states, who, however inclined to the other side, would scarcely separate from those who would hold the Mississippi from it's mouth to it's source. What next?"
----

BTW, is it true that when Virginia ratified the constitution, they also passed a resolution that would allow them to secede if the national government became too tyrannical?


695 posted on 02/27/2006 7:46:56 PM PST by PhilipFreneau ("The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. " - Psalms 14:1, 53:1)
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