The New Reverse Class Struggle: Although Smaller Sizes Are Touted, Some Say Bigger May Be Beneficial

Washington Post ^ | 02.14.06 | Jay Mathews

[Coleus]

It was 9:45 a.m. on a Wednesday morning. Jane Reiser's mathematics class in Room 18 was stuffed with sixth- and seventh-graders. There were 32 of them, way above the national class size average of 25. Every seat was filled -- 17 girls, 15 boys, all races, all learning styles. A teacher's nightmare.

And yet, despite having so many students, Reiser's class was humming, with everybody paying attention. She held up a few stray socks to introduce a lesson on probabilities with one of those weird questions that interest 11- and 12-year-olds:

If you reach into your sock drawer in the dark, what are the chances you will pull out two the same color?

Billie-Jean Bensen, principal of Herbert Hoover Middle School in Rockville, called Reiser "outstanding," "fabulous" and "truly amazing," able to get great results despite her large class size.

So why, some experts are asking, are educators and politicians so bent on reducing class sizes? Wouldn't it be better to let classes get bigger? Then schools could reduce the number of teachers, keep good ones like Reiser and pay them more.

The idea seems odd to many. But some scholars and administrators say raising class sizes and teacher pay might improve achievement.

Saul Cooperman, a former New Jersey education commissioner, said in the newspaper Education Week recently that if schools established a class size of 30 to 35 in all grades except third grade and below, they would, for the same money, be able to raise the average teacher salary from $50,000 to more than $75,000.

"What I am suggesting is heresy to most people," Cooperman said in the article, "because everybody seems to love smaller classes."

But according to Cooperman, chairman of the Academy for Teaching and Leadership in Far Hills, N.J., those negative reactions would soften once

[bybybill]

I was born in 1945 which means I`m old and all of our schools were crowded. Cause the classes were so big, we all had to behave and, if you wanted to learn anything, you had to shut up and listen. Seemed to work.

[SteveMcKing]

If more little South Parks help to withstand the real-life "Mr. Garrison" public school liberals, then I'd say that's good.

[TheBrotherhood]

"If you reach into your sock drawer in the dark, what are the chances you will pull out two the same color?"

100%. All my socks are blue.

[Coleus]

I agree, BTW, schools were at their greatest enrollment in 1973 & 1974 at the height of the baby boom. Politicians, teachers and the press seem to forget this salient fact so they can push their agenda with smaller classes and more teachers making the unions richer and more powerful.

[JRandomFreeper]

I've got a 1912 Primer that would put most university students to shame. It was designed for the 7 and under crowd.

First year students. By the end of the primer, it has 8 year olds reading at what would be considered 4+ years of 'higher edjication'.

We've lost the educational battle in the US. The NEA has won. We can't insist on kids knowing their metes and bounds.

/johnny

[Fruitbat]

We've lost the educational battle in the US. The NEA has won.

Yep, we sure have!

So why, some experts are asking, are educators and politicians so bent on reducing class sizes? Wouldn't it be better to let classes get bigger? Then schools could reduce the number of teachers, keep good ones like Reiser and pay them more.

This guy's partially on the right track. They need to find a way to be able to fire below average teachers. I know many in VA (DC metro area) that were good but quit b/c of all the problems w/ class discipline options.

The erroneous assumption by a politically baited public is that more money for teachers means better teaching. But that's as riduculous as thinking you can put $10 under your pillow at night and wake up expecting to find a C-note.......w/o having lost a tooth and being the child of rich parents that is. LOL

[bybybill]

I`m lucky, #6 grandcritter is now reading, she is in kindergarten, now we have to work with #7, but he`s only 4.
Are they learning to read at school, nah, their parents took the time to teach them.

[umgud]

We do need to reduce classroom sizes and I know just how to do it.

Remove disruptors, gangster wannabe's, kids who just don't want to learn. Give the remaining kids who do want to learn a chance.

[conservative in nyc]

From the article:

But according to Cooperman, chairman of the Academy for Teaching and Leadership in Far Hills, N.J., those negative reactions would soften once people thought about it. He said even local teacher union leaders would be intrigued. "Unions, first and foremost, are made up of people who operate in their members' interest," he said. "And a 51 percent pay raise is certainly in a union member's interest!"

Teacher UNION leaders only care about what is in the best interest of the Teacher Union, which is to increase the amount of dues paid. More teachers=more union dues. Fewer teachers=less union dues, unless you increase the amount of dues owed.

[kmiller1k]

You have absolutely nailed it! Get the behavior problems out of the room and the teacher can teach. There is no "big stick" anymore for bad behavior--the kids are "referred" for discipline and sent back to class to disrupt again. Unfortunately, the percentage of behavior problems has escalated as the the discipline has fallen off.

[durasell]

That's a good thought, but then communities are stuck with the worst of the bunch out on the street...

[mhx]

In 1973 my class had 40 kids in them and if we acted up at all we were in big trouble with Sister.

[kmiller1k]

It is a conundrum--kick out the disruptive students to the streets to create problems to the neighborhood or keep them in school and disrupt the education of 29 other students. Perhaps we could send these kids to alternative schools where vocational programs could be taught. Keep them busy with their hands and they tend to keep quiet and learn. I know this from experience.

[ksmvk]

homeschool ... the only way. It's easy once you get started.
Search the web, find what suits you. DO IT!!!
Get your kids out of govenment schools. Your will NEVER regret it!

My daughter home schools her 9 year old twin boys and her 3 year old daughter is learning right along side them. It is amazing how smart these children are. It takes time to decide what is best for your own children. Be flexible and do your homework, You may change programs as you gain knowledge. That is okay. Keep moving forward as you observe your children and just what works for them... your children will benefit in such a tremendous way that it will amaze you. Use your imagination and don't rely on the "norm". May God bless you in your efforts. He has certainly blessed my daughter in her efforts. Her whole family has benefited and she passes on her knowledge to others whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[durasell]

The guy (or gal) who figures out that problem gets to be carried down Main Street on the shoulders of a cheering populace.

Any "solution" requires more money. And money is the exact thing that folks don't want to put into education (except for their own kids).

The other problem is that many of these kids are already damaged beyond repair by the time they show up for the first day of school. Unstable home life, the mother drinking and drugging while pregnant, etc. etc. have already stacked the deck against them. This is a problem that afflicts both urban and rural communities.

[sageb1]

But...but...but...this means a parent has to stay home! /sarc off

[singfreedom]

That is true, the key being "everybody behaved". Not so anymore. Before I retired, and was teaching middle school, it was not uncommon to have to spend one half of a class period on discipline. True this didn't happen often, but when it did, I needed help immediately.

When I first started teaching, way over 30 years ago in a large urban district, chronic troublemakers were sent to the "office" and administrators would deal with the problem. Now, chances are good the student will beat you back to the classroom. Administrators are, by law, hamstrung as to punishment. Public education is at risk of being regulated, and sued, out of existence---and its tragic.

[LZ_Bayonet]

"The other problem is that many of these kids are already damaged beyond repair by the time they show up for the first day of school. Unstable home life, the mother drinking and drugging while pregnant, etc. etc. have already stacked the deck against them. This is a problem that afflicts both urban and rural communities."

Mucho teachers in my family and I'd say you pretty much nailed the problem. If someone is going to compare 1959 (I had 53 in my classroom)and 2006 class sizes it would probably also be fair to include the rates of divorce, drug abuse, and percent of families with two parents working, unless one were to think that those things don't impact the number of students a teacher can "deal with" while trying to educate. Then there are all the legal issues, but those are present regardless of class size.