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To: Arnold Zephel
"I have had the "hate-crimes" argument countless times with a lefty friend of mine."

All crimes are hate crimes. I do not subscribe to a law that says someone else has more expensive that me or my family. What a "Hate Crime" says is that some people are better than others and thus a crime against them is a worse that a crime against me or my family. Stupid!!!!!
6 posted on 02/15/2006 3:00:27 AM PST by YOUGOTIT
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To: YOUGOTIT; DJ MacWoW

> All crimes are hate crimes.

Any cop will tell you that's baloney. A convenience store doesn't get robbed because the perp hates the store owner. He just wants the money.

> What a "Hate Crime" says is that some people are better than others and thus a crime against them is a worse that a crime against me or my family.

No, again you have been misled by the framing. A black guy can commit a hate crime against a white guy just as easily as the reverse. No hate crime statute anywhere says otherwise. The fact that a group of people is under attack -- no matter what the group -- is the issue.

> What you are affirming is that someone should receive extra punishment for their thoughts. Or what other people believe are the perps thoughts. And that's crap.

We can dispose of the offhand "what other people believe are the perps thoughts" quickly: If I were to wave a baseball bat in your face and scream "You faggot you deserve to die", you don't exactly have to guess what I'm thinking. 'Kay? If the statement about the motivation is not made as part of the crime, though, there's no chilling effect, hence it's not a hate crime.

As for punishing their thoughts, again no, same reasoning. They can commit the same crime with the same thoughts in their head and it can *not* be a hate crime if they leave out the threats to the rest of the threatened class.


15 posted on 02/15/2006 4:47:52 AM PST by FearlessEddie (been there, done that, don't need a stupid t-shirt)
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To: YOUGOTIT
All crimes are hate crimes.

That isn't always true. Plenty of crimes, such as fraud, car theft etc. don't involve any hatred by the perp against the victim.

What a "Hate Crime" says is that some people are better than others and thus a crime against them is a worse that a crime against me or my family.

Hate crime laws don't actually say that. If someone comitted a crime against you or your family based on your race, religion etc., the hate crime laws would still apply.

45 posted on 02/15/2006 7:54:36 AM PST by Potowmack ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: YOUGOTIT
"All crimes are hate crimes. "

I respectfully disagree with you. Do bank robbers rob banks because they hate them?
98 posted on 02/15/2006 12:29:46 PM PST by dljordan
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