Posted on 02/11/2006 12:49:16 PM PST by Reagan Man
golly gee, that "proves" everything. good one, quisling.
We TRUE conservatives base our comments on FACTS. FACT: You are wrong.
LOL!
First off, not one of your statistics contradicts what I said....and that's just for starters.
Shall I continue.
You're wrong...oh, and therefor you're not conservative.
BTW Stellar, Reagan was alive, coherent and president once. He never put troops on the border.
"BTW Stellar, Reagan was alive, coherent and president once. He never put troops on the border."
Wow, FreeReign....you really "told" me, huh!!
You either took my comment out of context or missed it:
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also, 9/11 didnt happen while reagan was in office. the fact that the borders are open for this long after that fateful day is dangerous.
i would guarantee that RWR would support closing the borders if he were alive and coherent.
73 posted on 02/11/2006 3:54:14 PM CST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
----
bottom line, reagan would not do what Bush is doing now with the border if he had to deal with a 9/11 in the 80's.
Neither.
Your comment was already removed from its original context in post #241 by another poster. I responded to what I saw in post #241. I don't remove people's quotes from context.
Here's what you want;
I'll even give you bonus context just to make it fair;
Now why don't you tell me why you think that the threat of terrorism in the years 2002 thru 2006 versus the threat of terrorism in the years 1981 thru 1988 is so different.
Before you answer that you may want to look at your own home page. In fact I'll cut and paste it here;
Assassination of Egyptian President, October 6, 1981: Soldiers who were secretly members of the Takfir Wal-Hajira sect attacked and killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a troop review.
Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people, including the CIA’s Middle East director, were killed and 120 were injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed the U.S. compound, killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed when a 400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kidnapping of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984: The Islamic Jihad kidnapped and later murdered Political Officer William Buckley in Beirut, Lebanon. Other U.S. citizens not connected to the U.S. government were seized over a succeeding two-year period.
Restaurant Bombing in Spain, April 12, 1984: 18 U.S. servicemen were killed and 83 people were injured in a bomb attack on a restaurant near a U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain.
TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were held for seventeen days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.
Soviet Diplomats Kidnapped, September 30, 1985: In Beirut, Lebanon, Sunni terrorists kidnapped four Soviet diplomats. One was killed but three were later released.
Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was murdered before the Egyptian government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.
Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985: An EgyptAir airplane bound from Athens to Malta and carrying several U.S. citizens was hijacked by the Abu Nidal Group. Airport Attacks in Rome and Vienna, December 27, 1985: Four gunmen belonging to the Abu Nidal Organization attacked the El Al and Trans World Airlines ticket counters at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci Airport with grenades and automatic rifles. Thirteen persons were killed and 75 were wounded before Italian police and Israeli security guards killed three of the gunmen and captured the fourth. Three more Abu Nidal gunmen attacked the El Al ticket counter at Vienna’s Schwechat Airport, killing three persons and wounding 30. Austrian police killed one of the gunmen and captured the others.
Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens airport, killing four U.S. citizens.
Berlin Discothèque Bombing, April 5, 1986: Two U.S. soldiers were killed and 79 American servicemen were injured in a Libyan bomb attack on a nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany. In retaliation U.S. military jets bombed targets in and around Tripoli and Benghazi.
Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988: U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel W. Higgins was kidnapped and murdered by the Iranian-backed Hizballah group while serving with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO) in southern Lebanon.
Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car-bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.
Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft by Libyan terrorists in Frankfurt, West Germany. All 259 people on board were killed.v Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara Desert in southern Niger during a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170 persons aboard were killed. Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Now, after reading the above punch list of terrorist acts from 1981 to 1989 tell me with a straight face why the threat of terrorism in the years 2002 thru 2006 versus the threat of terrorism in the years 1981 thru 1988 is so different.
Then tell me why you blame Bush for the failure to put troops on the border yet you don't blame Reagan.
I'll await your answer.
Today we have 10-15 million illegals and maybe more, who are living and working in the US, while they break our laws and steal from the American people. When you consider the number of illegals in the US today, the poor results from the IRCA of 1986, the ongoing problems with open borders and the events of 9-11, I believe Reagan would conclude its time to take serious action that finally solves the problem once and for all.
Reagan would not advance a blanket amnesty for illegals again, or would he support Bush`s guest worker program, aka. backdoor amnesty. Reagan would want to assure the borders were sufficiently secured and employers halted their practice of hiring illegals in direct violation of US law. I'm confident, Reagan would even support building a barrier along the border with Mexico. Dangerous times require serious decisions be made.
"This bill, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, that I will sign in a few minutes is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. It's the product of one of the longest and most difficult legislative undertakings in the last three Congresses. Further, it's an excellent example of a truly successful bipartisan effort. The administration and the allies of immigration reform on both sides of the Capitol and both sides of the aisle worked together to accomplish these critically important reforms to control illegal immigration.
"In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. Distance has not discouraged illegal immigration to the United States from all around the globe. The problem of illegal immigration should not, therefore, be seen as a problem between the United States and its neighbors. Our objective is only to establish a reasonable, fair, orderly, and secure system of immigration into this country and not to discriminate in any way against particular nations or people."
"Future generations of Americans will be thankful for our efforts to humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship. "
Answer: 9-11.
All the acts of terrorism you listed happened during the Reagan years, but the US was never attacked on its homeland while Ronald Reagan was President. Period. There were 2-3 million illegals in the US during the Reagan years. Today, there are 10-15 million, with 3-5 million coming here since 9-11!
Btw, did you know the acts of terrorism around the world that have occured since Bush became POTUS is significantly higher then during the Reagan years.
You can try and distract from the issue with quotes from my own page, but no one in America took terrorism seriously until 9/11 when we lost 3,000 americans on our OWN soil. Since 9/11 the borders are wide open, and for what reason?
I guess you'll tell me the following stories are "made up lies" by the liberal media???
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1519110/posts
"Congresswoman: Three Al Qaeda Caught in U.S. After Crossing Border with Mexico"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1539796/posts
"51 Terrorist Suspects Crossed Border Illegally"
FreeReign said:
"Then tell me why you blame Bush for the failure to put troops on the border yet you don't blame Reagan."
No one took terrorism seriously before 9/11 in which 3,000 lives were lost on American soil.
Please list a terrorist attack that happened during the Reagan years on American soil, in which 3,000 or more lives were lost. Im awaiting your answer.
As I said, the words and deeds of Reagan do not constitute proof in you're world, because they refute your world view.
To: Once-Ler; Stellar Dendrite
As I've told you before, PresReagan didn't support open borders. Reagan said: "A nation without borders is not a nation." The IRCA of 1986 was meant to be a one time amnesty deal. Period. Roughly 2 to 3-million illegals were effected by the passing of the IRCA of 1986. If Reagan were around today, he would take a far different position on the illegal immigration issue then he did 20 years ago.
Today we have 10-15 million illegals and maybe more, who are living and working in the US, while they break our laws and steal from the American people. When you consider the number of illegals in the US today, the poor results from the IRCA of 1986, the ongoing problems with open borders and the events of 9-11, I believe Reagan would conclude its time to take serious action that finally solves the problem once and for all.
Reagan would not advance a blanket amnesty for illegals again, or would he support Bush`s guest worker program, aka. backdoor amnesty. Reagan would want to assure the borders were sufficiently secured and employers halted their practice of hiring illegals in direct violation of US law. I'm confident, Reagan would even support building a barrier along the border with Mexico. Dangerous times require serious decisions be made.
From: The Reagan Presidential Library : Remarks on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 : November 6, 1986
"This bill, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, that I will sign in a few minutes is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. It's the product of one of the longest and most difficult legislative undertakings in the last three Congresses. Further, it's an excellent example of a truly successful bipartisan effort. The administration and the allies of immigration reform on both sides of the Capitol and both sides of the aisle worked together to accomplish these critically important reforms to control illegal immigration.
"In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. Distance has not discouraged illegal immigration to the United States from all around the globe. The problem of illegal immigration should not, therefore, be seen as a problem between the United States and its neighbors. Our objective is only to establish a reasonable, fair, orderly, and secure system of immigration into this country and not to discriminate in any way against particular nations or people."
"Future generations of Americans will be thankful for our efforts to humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship. "
246 posted on 02/12/2006 6:11:21 PM CST by Reagan Man
Answer: 9-11. All the acts of terrorism you listed happened during the Reagan years, but the US was never attacked on its homeland while Ronald Reagan was President.
9-11?Your answer is a non-sequitur response. None of the 9-11 terrorists entered the country through a land border.
These are the relevant facts;
In years 1981 thru 1988, international terrorists were out to get our countries interests.
In years 2002 thru 2006, international terrorist were out to get our countries interest.
In years 1981 thru 1988, president Reagan did not put troops on or international borders.
In years 2002 thru 2006, president Bush did not put troops on our international borders.
Yet you blame Bush for not having troops on the border and you don't blame Reagan for not having troops on the border.
You're not being objective, IMO.
Btw, did you know the acts of terrorism around the world that have occured since Bush became POTUS is significantly higher then during the Reagan years.
So what.
Did you know that German attacks on the British were significantly higher during the Churchill years than during the Chamberlin years. The terrorist are attacking us because we are trying to -- remove them.
Reagan signed an amnesty, ran on a campaign issue of a North American Accord which spawned NAFTA, barely enforced his own restriction from 86-89, didn't speak out against illegal immigration after 89(which I would contrast to his endorsement for the Brady Bill after 89), and his farewell address makes his opinion pretty clear to those who can read and think for themselves.
In reading your response I can only assume you have psychic powers or a crystal ball because I see no justification to support the statement "If Reagan were around today, he would take a far different position on the illegal immigration issue then he did 20 years ago,"...A position that was, I remind you, amnesty.
That's just flipping lazy Stellar. Why bother to post at all?
No one took terrorism seriously before 9/11 in which 3,000 lives were lost on American soil.
So your answer is, you blame Bush for not putting troops on the border yet you don't blame Reagan for not putting troops on the border because nobody including Reagan himself took terrorism seriously.
Stellar, that's your argument.
LOL!
Not only does Stellar flip other people's posts, Stellar also has the need to "cc" other posters when ever she/he replies to somebody.
Seems like Stellar needs help and can't argue on his or her own.
"Stellar, that's your argument."
LOL, I wont let FreeReignForIllegalsAndTerrorists define my argument. You have purposefully mischaracterized what I was arguing so you won't look so bad.
I asked you a simple question, which you ignored. Please list a terrorist attack that happened on American soil during Reagan's term in which 3,000 or more Americans died.
Since you won't answer, I'll answer for you: none.
So when 9/11 happened, everything changed. But...not our border policy.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1519110/posts
"Congresswoman: Three Al Qaeda Caught in U.S. After Crossing Border with Mexico"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1539796/posts
"51 Terrorist Suspects Crossed Border Illegally"
Had 9/11 happened on Reagan's watch, he would have put troops on the border.
I don't need any help, we always CC each other when talking to OBL quislings like yourself. It allows us to make a mental note of those who openly embrace open borders
240 Marines were killed by terrorists in 1983 in Lebanon. Reagan knew exactly who was behind the deed, but didn't do jack!!
As far as I'm concerned, that is a non-sequitar statement that is designed to cover Bush`s butt.
The proper question you should've asked is as follows.
Why do you expect Bush to put troops on the borders? Reagan never did.
That question has been answered several times.
From the early 1970`s through the 1993, there was never a terrorist attack on the US homeland. Americans were never killed on the US homeland. The first WTC attacks in 1993 should have led to a serious reevaluation of US security against terrorist attacks, by the Clinton administration. That didn 't happen. After the Khobar Towers attacks in 1996, followed by the U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa in 1998 and the attack on the USS Cole in 2000, PresClinton didn't do jacks**t.
After the 9-11 attacks PresBush took the appropriate actions. He attacked Afghanistan, destroyed the Taliban and sent AlQaeda running for cover. After 9-11 many Americans called for the borders to be sealed and a moratorium placed on all immigration. Legal and illegal. The latter never happened. 3-5 million more illegals have entered th US since 9-11.
In the 1980`s, the issue of using military troops along the border never came up. Since 9-11 Americans have been calling for the US military to be used along our borders. No such action has even been considered by the Bush administration. The use of troops along our borders is viable option and one that should have been employed by this point.
Hope that little history lesson helps you out.
I've made no argument for open borders. You on the other hand have made the argument that there was no reason for Reagan to put troops on the border during the years 1981 thru 1988.
If you feel that the argument that you've made mischaracterizes you point-of-view then you can clarify your point-of-view by answering the following simple question.
Yes, or no, was Ronald Reagan wrong for not putting troops on the border during his presidency?
Steller der Landesverräter, ja oder nein.
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