[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

The Arabs/Muslims seem intent on a clash of civilizations the likes of which haven't been seen since WW2. We had better react, and do so powerfully and quickly, or we will perish.

Yes it is a "clash of civilizations".

But to defeat a civilization is not something the military isn't proficient at.

It will take more then bombs and troops. You're trying to defeat an idea. Not easy. And our cherished free and reckless speech is not moving us forward.

[dervish]

"And our cherished free and reckless speech is not moving us forward."

Our speech, even the cartoons which you are calling reckless, would take us forward just fine if the West did as Levy suggested -- support the press without apologizing for what is not under government control:

"The affirmation of the press's right to the expression of idiocies of its choosing -- rather than the acts of repentance that too many leaders have resorted to, and which merely encourages in the Arab street the false and counterproductive illusion that a democratic state may exert power over its press."

[horse_doc]

But to defeat a civilization is not something the military isn't proficient at.

In almost every case I would agree. But Islam has an Achilles heel, in the cities of Mecca and Medina. If they were to vanish, Islam would be crippled, and would shrivel up.

There is one very good historical precedent - in the 7th Century, when Byzantium was almost exterminated by the Zoroastran Sassanid Empire, the emperor Heraclius took his last army and did something new - he unexpectedly attacked the holy city of the Sassanids, sacked it, extinguished their "eternal flame", and filled their sacred lake with dead animals.

The shock was absolute - the Sassanids, on the brink of snuffing out Christianity, lost the moral will to govern. Zoroastranism is now a trivia question.

A religion that venerates a central piece of real estate has a fatal vulnerability. When that central spot is taken and desecrated, all bets are off.

[badbass]

It will take more then bombs and troops. You're trying to defeat an idea.

This will sound like a joke, but it's not. I honestly wonder, if the crap hits the fan, if we would just drop the discardings from the nearest pork processing plant on Mecca, what would happen? I know there would be the initial outcry,etc., but in the long run, wouldn't it prove to these nuts that their religion is false? Maybe then they would get a grip on reality, without the massive loss of life that nukes would cause.

[arthurus]

The cartoons did not cause he unpleasantness that is coming, that is already to some extent here. It is a handy excuse to take attention away from Iran. If the cartoons were not available some other excuse would have sufficed.The war is happening right now. These tantrums just might jar the Euros and more Americans to understand a bit of what is at stake.