Baptist Ping
Popcorn anyone?
Sounds like the Sountern Baptist have a problem with parts of the Bible.
Does God allow heresy to arise, to bring us back to the truth?
Does he allow people of his, to take a truth to the point that it is no longer true, in order to wake the rest of us up?
IE: We don't like the "name it and claim it", or "blab it and grab it" doctrines of the health, wealth and prosperity movement. They do misuse and abuse scripture in my opinion on this issue, BUT, doesn't the presence of the errors made regarding that issue make the rest of us sit up and think about "How do we really interpret the scriptures that do actually deal with God blessing people who give and give abundantly?"
Same thing with the Holy Spirit and such related issues of speaking in tongues, miracles, etc... I have been around people who are vehemently opposed to speaking in tongues today, and those who practice speaking in tongues.
Some who say "you're not born again unless you do speak in tongues", and others who say, "you're not born again, if you do, you're demon possessed."
WOW, what a conflicting dynamic! Apart from this issue, people in both camps were loving, caring, people, who were well aware of their own sinfulness, and need for Christ as their savior.
As you can see, I have found that there are idiots in both camps. They're still my brothers and sisters, but they're still WAY WAY out there, on their points of view.
Personally, after growing up Catholic, graduating from an Assembly of God Bible College, and spending time in various churches, including an SBC church in Missouri for awhile, and now serving in a Christian and Missionary Alliance church, I have to say that, I have found brothers and sisters in all the camps.
I have also found the same dead "riff raff" in all of the above churches, too.
I have more and more found that the simplicity of the gospel is so profound, that the "best" minds in the world, can't get right down and admit that their pet issues mean nothing. After thousands and thousands of dollars from years of Bible College, and time spent as a youth and associate Pastor. I have only found a few statements in scripture that clearly and definitively describe what being a true Christian is all about. Here are the two most prominent:
1. John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
2. Romans 10:9
... if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
When people on the street start doing this we call it mental illness. I guess there's a lot of prophets with signs that say "Will Work For Food."
ping for later
The modern Charismatic mode of "speaking in tongues" is troubling since it doesn't fit the biblical pattern set out by St. Paul. If a Baptist assembly were to somehow manage to accurately reproduce the biblical scenario (one speaks, another interprets, and this in the presence of non-Christians that understand the same language as the tongue), I think that sooner or later the SBC would make room for it.
The blog site is .. http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/
I've swapped a few emails with Mr. Burleson. I think this comes down to some people wanting the SBC to "change". And, he's pushing against a group that if anything is wanting to reclaim the "old days". While many Southern Baptist churches have moved toward charasmatic services, many in the denomination would rather it didn't. We're seeing a discussion between these factions. And it's playing itself out on the International Mission Board.
Personally..... it seems to me that if a missionary wanted to speak in tongues it would be just as easy to accept funding from the Assembly Of God denomination.... and be right in their mainstream.
The other part of this issue is that traditionally Baptist Churches required baptism to be performed by a Baptist. Recently churches have accepted baptistm by non-baptist churches as long as it was by emersion. Mr. Burleson is pushing the imb to drop its requirements for Baptist Baptism among missionaries.
I am now the Assistant Pastor at Boston's United Pentecostal Church
I have been attending this Church for half of my life of 48 years.
Speaking in tongues is also about receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
No need for "tongue speaking".
We have the Bible.
But here's a good one for you...What language did the angels speak??? What language did Adam and Eve speak???
Unless you change a word or two in the scriptures, anyone can clearly see speaking in tongues is a foreign language, or unknown language (to you)...
But what's important is we are encouraged by the Bible NOT to speak in 'tongues'...Why???
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
That's pretty straight forward...Are the signs for Christians in this age???
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
The Jews require the signs and miracles...For the most part, they have too much Biblical history and tradition to accept a Crucified Christ...
Tongues are for a sign...The Jews require a sign...Chrisians look for wisdon (in preaching)...Let's also not forget that in Paul's later life, he was a physical wreck...And no one could heal him, (outside of God)...
If we all believed the Bible, there would be one denomination...
And some people wonder why we have all those epistls....
Anyone who would like to get the real scoop on the subject needs to read 1 corinthians ... the whole thing would be good , but if your short on time start at chapter 12 and go all the way through chapter 14
I recommend the KJV.
I really like the last few sentences.
and I quote ..
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spirtual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Wherefore, brethen, covet to prophsey, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.
... But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant .
..If that doesnt sound like a freeper ...
If someone wants to speak in tongues then there are many denominations that will support that practice. Or they can start a new one. But I am against any acceptance of the practice in my denomination. I believe it is not a power from God and therefore a dangerous practice. For that reason I do not classify it as a minor doctrine that should be overlooked. And it divides people into groups and classifications. That's fine, but it does not fit under one denominational umbrella. As a denomination, you either accept tongues or you don't. To say it doesn't matter is to accept the practice as at least potentially from God. This is a big deal. If it is not of us and it is not of God then what is left?
"Tongues is described in the Bible as a spiritual language used by early Christians, enabled by the Holy Spirit. The issue of whether it is still relevant, or appropriate, for modern times has divided many denominations."
For those not in the know, the reason some are vehement about tongues is that we believe what modern tongue-speakers are doing is inviting demonic influence because we believe when the Bible talks about tongues, it means languages that are spoken by humans. We believe the tongues spoken by charismatics is either emotional, faked, or brought on by influences not godly.
I won't argue with those that practice it, as it is not somethign I will be convinced otherwise and i am not seeking to convince others. i am merely explaining our position.
Those that name the name of Christ, whether charismatic or not, I count as fellow Christians. Still, the practice of today's practice, which we feel is not true to the Scriptures, is not allowed in our assembly.