Liberal, Conservative, or Southern Conservative

Anon

[wardaddy]

actually I'm worse than I appear here

[x]

In many ways, America is more homogeneous ideologically than at any time in its history.

Or at least since 1963 or so. I'd agree with that.

You might want to take a look at James Q. Wilson's article in Commentary, though. The great conflicts of the Cold War are behind us, but the reasons people give for being Republican or Democrat are more ideological than in the past. The old moderate to conservative Southern Democrats and moderate to liberal Eastern Republicans are more or less gone, so partisan debates are sharper and more divisive.

So even though the parties aren't as far apart as they were in the recent past, people are more passionate about belonging to one party or the other and regard partisan battles as conflicts of principle. Americans aren't Republican or Democrat out of tradition or ethnicity or regionalism -- or at least we think we aren't -- and that carries over into political discussion, making debates more ferocious than they were in previous years.

I can't help thinking that we're part of the same civilization. Cities need the healthier, less stressful attitudes of the countryside, but the suburbia or exurbia are also going to suffer if they simply dismiss the cities. It was never the case that all the pathologies and vices were on one side of the rural/urban divide, and nowadays it's harder than ever to separate out urban and rural culture.

[hiredhand]

...There's an "identity politics" aspect to these animosities. Both sides seem to be saying "This is what I am, and you threaten what I am." But is that really the case? Aren't we large enough a country to encompass very different ways of life? Most of this ill-feeling, is tongue in cheek, isn't it?

It's much more than what you describe. There is an underlying struggle that has fantastic potential for breaching the physical realm from the philosophical/ideological realm where it largely exists now. Occasionally it does exactly this, but not so much that the MSM is unable to keep it off the radar screen. This nation is polarized. Sides are drawn up. The only thing that hasn't happened is that armies haven't amassed and gathered for a physical battle.

We are certainly a large enough a country to encompass very different ways of life. But I've observed a "push" from the left. Conservatives seem quite content to live and let live. Leftists aren't content though unless you firmly embrace "diversity", a woman's right to "choose", and see separation of church and state "their" way.

...and if you don't, you are a homophobe, a trampler of women's rights, and a Jesus "freak". They're not satisfied with living peacefully amongst everybody else. Certainly you've noticed this.

I believe leftism advanced as far as it did during the Clinton years because conservatives foolishly believed that there was enough room for us to all live together with our differences.

However I believe (and hope) that conservatives are slowly learning that it simply doesn't work that way. It's a war we're involved in. The shooting hasn't started. But it's a war nonetheless, and unless we treat it as such, we're going to lose.

Principles of warfare are well established disciplines. But nothing I've seen the RNC do in the past five years or so indicates that they have any serious notion of doing much more than just trying to get along with their adversaries and benefit personally from the cushy and self serving relationships.

This is a great shame, because they don't realize that their adversaries really do understand the situation, and fight hard for the destruction of us all.

[x]

There's a lot in that. Certainly the efforts to use the courts to force states and communities to accept gay marriage are a good indication of an absence of a "live and let live" attitude in some quarters.

But if conservatives play their cards right we can defeat such efforts. Liberal activists are only a small percentage of the population in the country as a whole, and a minority even in the blue states, and on some issues time is against them.

I do notice, though, that some people in the blue states are coming to think that conservatives and the GOP don't have much use for them, and that could have consequences for the future. It's a tough situation. Some of the social conservative arguments against abortion, gun control, or homosexuality haven't had have much appeal in the blue states lately, so there's a lot of frustration with those parts of the country in conservative circles.

But a recognition that the Northeast and West Coast have contributed a lot to American culture might help. For some people around here whose parents voted for Eisenhower or Nixon or Reagan, conservative Evangelicals from the Heartland are the guys who wanted to take away granddad's beer, and would have outlawed dancing too, if they could have gotten away with it, and that's not a good rep to have.

[Torie]

I suspect 70% of Americans are not interested in waging any sort of cultural war, and it is live and let live, despite some of the rhetoric. That line in Pat Buchanan's speech at the GOP convention in 1992 (or whatever year it was) was a big flop. The gay marriage thing is an irritant because it has come from the robes. When it is legalized in California, and a few other places, by the ballot box, it won't matter much I suspect. Most American accept culturally induced changes via the ballot box, and cultural attitudes are not much affected in my view by politics. They are shaped by life experiences.

[hiredhand]

You just caused me to realize that NOT everybody involved in the "left vs right" fight is of my generation. I did NOT consider that a good many people have a whole different definition of "conservative".

[dixiechick2000]

I deal with the same thing out here.
The folks in Portland can't understand conservatives,
much less why anyone would want to be one.
I am not talking about the unwashed anarchists, ELF folks,
and others of that ilk.
I'm talking about lawyers, bankers, physicians...professionals.
These are the supposed cultural elite?
They can't see past the nose on their face.

I'm the "different" one in this crowd.

I do everything in my power NOT to go to downtown Portland.
The last time I was there, a lesbian hit on me.
I don't take to kindly to that.
She wasn't even a lipstick lesbian. lol


BTW, many of those professionals are aging hippies
who did go quite a way towards conformity.
They wear nice suits, and carry beautiful briefcases.
However, they are, also, sporting gray ponytails,
and wearing Birkenstocks. ;o)

[verity]

We are certainly a large enough a country to encompass very different ways of life. But I've observed a "push" from the left. Conservatives seem quite content to live and let live. Leftists aren't content though unless you firmly embrace "diversity", a woman's right to "choose", and see separation of church and state "their" way.

I agree with your observation. The cultural war in which this country is engaged was on full display during the Alito confirmation. Personally, I am not for a truce.

[hiredhand]

Oh I'd be ALL for a truce! In fact, I'd LOVE for there to be a truce!

But the left doesn't make real truces. They back down under the auspices of getting along with us, but as soon as they regain some strength, they come back worse than they were before!

Like the "Hudna" that the was declared by the palestinians a couple of years ago. The media called it a "truce", when actually by definition it means to simply rest and regroup so you can fight again later. The definition turned out to be true.

I'm with you. No truce! We either win this one big, or lose it big, mainly because the left won't have it any other way.

I've been sharply criticized for suggesting this, but I wish this division would spill into civil war. I personally know that this truly is a terrible thing to wish for. But what we're doing now is the equivalent of cleaning a very dirty kitchen floor with a toothbrush, when what we NEED to do is scrub it with a wire brush first, and then after awhile of that, use a regular mop, and after a lot of water and heavy scrubbing, we'll have a clean floor again.

But everybody shudders at the thought of civil war, and everybody does all they can to avert it. But I believe if we simply pushed the left the way they've pushed us, we'd be in a civil war already anyway.

[bourbon]

The last time I was there, a lesbian hit on me.

yikes. I guess you were on her turf.

BTW, did she look anything like this?

[dixiechick2000]

YIKES!

She was a tad prettier than that.
Though, I wouldn't call her pretty. ;o)

[wardaddy]

bet she has those wild hairs on her chin growing from moles

[dixiechick2000]

How'd you know?

LOL